Topic: '69 painting questions (Oct 68 Dearborn)

[emptys]

The images on the this site are great to sort out how the car is painted, but even with all the details, i still have some questions, these all refer to a  dearborn  10/11/68 428 GT mustang


I have the dolly spacers ready, but in some of the images it seems as if no grey-slop actually made it onto the rear frame rail.   For example in Jeff's article on reproducing dolly marks, on the last page, the rear frame rail looks like it natural, or maybe galvanized,  with a hint of body color overspray.   I had thought the rear frame rails would be covered with grey-slop, is that not the case?


I'm thinking this car would be one of the cars in the time-range where the front clip would be grey-slop, not red-oxide,  under engine black... as i've seen on cobrajetchris' front clip images, would that be correct in for this early 69?


This is an early mustang,  i'd like some clarification on the lower windshield black-out.   AFAIK, i'm thinking this car would cowl painted body color, but lower windshild would be blacked out.   Is this blackout the same as in the engine bay, or is it different?


I've seen several posts mentioning pinch-weld blackout,  would there be anywhere on the car where pinch-weld would have been blacked out?   I'm thinking no, but better to ask...


Does the front of the transmission tunnel stay natural?  If so, where does the grey-slop start?


I've seen picture of the door plates getting painted on the cowl,  with the shadows left showing a different color.   what should show up in the shadow?  is it natural, or something else?   Additionally, where on the cowl were these placed when there were painted?   The images i've seen don't really give a left/right cowl side location).   Finally,  the images all show the shadow four small plates,  but i'm only aware of two plates at the back of the door which need to be painted.  What are the other two plates?


Is there overspray on the inside door sound deadener?  Are the passenger wheel wells interior color (red in this case), or body color (white for this car)


in the trunk area, i've seen images of sound deadener applied to the left/right inside quarter panels near the front wheel well.   Is this underneath body paint, or on top of body paint?


I've noticed in some images, what seems to be black painted bolts on the shock tower side of the export brace.  Should be be some other finish, or are they painted over?


Thanks in advance!

[J_Speegle]

I have the dolly spacers ready, but in some of the images it seems as if no grey-slop actually made it onto the rear frame rail.   For example in Jeff's article on reproducing dolly marks, on the last page, the rear frame rail looks like it natural, or maybe galvanized,  with a hint of body color overspray.   I had thought the rear frame rails would be covered with grey-slop, is that not the case?

Normally the rear frame rails and the floor on either side would have been sprayed from below unless the a jet plugged up. With that said the jets normally stopped just before the rear frame rail which would leave a light to heavy overspray from the application from there backwards. With the elements taking their toll over the years it often looks like no paint was applied to the area - but now replaced with surface rust or worst

I'm thinking this car would be one of the cars in the time-range where the front clip would be grey-slop, not red-oxide,  under engine black... as I've seen on cobrajetchris' front clip images, would that be correct in for this early 69?

Since we are focusing on Oct only at that plant, yes there is a good chance that yours was painted the same (non- red oxide) on the firewall forward area of the unibody IMHO

This is an early mustang,  i'd like some clarification on the lower windshield black-out.   AFAIK, i'm thinking this car would cowl painted body color, but lower windshield would be blacked out.   Is this blackout the same as in the engine bay, or is it different?

Don't have any cars that early at Dearborn (through at least 9F145xxx at a quick look) with the opening blacked out. Allot of restorers still do it inside the car to eliminate the body color showing around the dash pad

I've seen several posts mentioning pinch-weld blackout,  would there be anywhere on the car where pinch-weld would have been blacked out?   I'm thinking no, but better to ask...

Normally the pinch weld black out was applied to the pinchweld starting in the front wheelwell (fender not installed yet) to the rear wheelwell opening then starting again after the wheel wells to where the rear valance would be pulled in later in the assembly. There are original cars out there where sometimes behind the wheelwells were missed as well as some where the black out climbed up the outside surface on the quarter panel  when a worker possibly slipped with the mask or gun

Does the front of the transmission tunnel stay natural?  If so, where does the grey-slop start?

No all bottom surfaces would have gotten sprayed normally - unless a jet got plugged or someone disconnected the trip switch that applied the paint/primer

The floor color starts where the firewall black paint ends since the black was applied over the floor color. The paint can be thin if the painter of the engine compartment didn't bend over much leaving a thin area but would not suggest reproducing this look (surface rust) unless you documented it on your car. Transition was normally somewhere in the area where the firewall goes from vertical to the angle to the floor panel. The black normally fades out somewhere in that short distance

I've seen picture of the door plates getting painted on the cowl,  with the shadows left showing a different color.   

Most of the time it appears the cowl was the favorite place while on a few occasions they have been found elsewhere on the body. No one will see the area after the car is assembled

what should show up in the shadow?  is it natural, or something else?   Additionally, where on the cowl were these placed when there were painted?   The images I've seen don't really give a left/right cowl side location).

Most of the time it looks like they were placed there after the grey surface coat. On the cowl the thickness of this layer can be thin showing red oxide through at times but that could also be due to some rubbing or cleaning of the surface. I've often found them on the passenger side of the cowl


 

Finally,  the images all show the shadow four small plates,  but I'm only aware of two plates at the back of the door which need to be painted.  What are the other two plates?

Must be looking at examples from coupes and convertible

Is there overspray on the inside door sound deadener?  Are the passenger wheel wells interior color (red in this case), or body color (white for this car)

What interior package did the car have?  Body color or interior color overspray?

Not sure what passenger wheel wells are

in the trunk area, I've seen images of sound deadener applied to the left/right inside quarter panels near the front wheel well.   Is this underneath body paint, or on top of body paint?

Are you asking about the trunk sound deadener applied in the trunk behind the wheel well?  Guessing just a typo

Sound deadener in the trunk like the rear wheel wells was applied before body color was applied over it

'I've noticed in some images, what seems to be black painted bolts on the shock tower side of the export brace.  Should be be some other finish, or are they painted over?

No bolts on the front end of the car were installed when the car was being painted - you must be looking at with cars that have been played with or other cars not fully restored


Hope this helps

[emptys]

Most of the time it appears the cowl was the favorite place while on a few occasions they have been found elsewhere on the body. No one will see the area after the car is assembled


Most of the time it looks like they were placed there after the grey surface coat. On the cowl the thickness of this layer can be thin showing red oxide through at times but that could also be due to some rubbing or cleaning of the surface. I've often found them on the passenger side of the cowl


Must be looking at examples from coupes and convertible

Ah right, it was a convertible!  got it, thanks!

What interior package did the car have?  Body color or interior color overspray?

Not sure what passenger wheel wells are

Standard (dark red) interior.

Sorry, oops, i mean the interior area, driver side and passenger side, behind the vent area.

Are you asking about the trunk sound deadener applied in the trunk behind the wheel well?  Guessing just a typo

Sound deadener in the trunk like the rear wheel wells was applied before body color was applied over it

yes, the area furthest ahead on the quarter panel, adjacent to the wheel well...

[J_Speegle]

Is there overspray on the inside door sound deadener?  Are the passenger wheel wells interior color (red in this case), or body color (white for this car)
Standard (dark red) interior.
Sorry, oops, i mean the interior area, driver side and passenger side, behind the vent area.

Interior color would have been applied before exterior paint and then masked on only a couple of surfaces. A pillars and (if standard interior) the bottom of the doors below the door panel area. No interior color is typically found on the A pillar/interior cowl surface below the windshield opening

in the trunk area, I've seen images of sound deadener applied to the left/right inside quarter panels near the front wheel well.   Is this underneath body paint, or on top of body paint?

yes, the area furthest ahead on the quarter panel, adjacent to the wheel well...

During your time period and plant it appears that they were still applying sound deadener to the inside surface prior to painting the body color at the rear int he trunk and (on a sportroof) behind the B pillar and below the rear quarter windows  to reduce the noise. This forward area rarely sees much paint over it other that some overspray since there are no panels directly in front of it that received direct application of body color

[emptys]

I noticed the new library article about interior color paint, that's a great addition.

I'm also like to verify what paint was used on other parts of the interior.  For example, is the roof of the interior painted exterior color?  What about the front floors or passenger area?  i seem to recall some controversy about the paint color behind the kick panels -- should this be the exterior color?

[J_Speegle]

I noticed the new library article about interior color paint, that's a great addition.

I'm also like to verify what paint was used on other parts of the interior.  For example, is the roof of the interior painted exterior color?  What about the front floors or passenger area?  i seem to recall some controversy about the paint color behind the kick panels -- should this be the exterior color?

No direct application of exterior color in the interior, what ends up there is a result of exterior panel application  when resulted normally on more on the lower and floor panels (those surfaces not masked off depending on model and body type.

Over that we do have examples of "black out" depending as usual on plant, body style and model

[emptys]

Over that we do have examples of "black out" depending as usual on plant, body style and model

Hi Jeff,  any details/images of where the "black out" was applied for an early 10/68 dearborn mustang?

[cobrajetchris]

 I will upload some additional photos that may not be on this forum to assist you as my Mach 1 was built 10/68 in Dearborn. There are many things on this car that was not "typical" to most 69's. I think for one reason it is not only an early car but a model change, so the many later revisions did not apply. I will caution you that if you don't have documentation to back up some of these items you may be docked points at a national show. For example I was deducted points for not enough sound deadener on the firewall however as you can see in my original photos there is little or next to none applied on my car. My car is an A/C car and has no radiator support seal however I took a hit on that too. I was almost deducted for the blue/grey undercarriage color but did remember to bring photos of this so no points deducted there. I am not a certified judge or renown expert but I did restore this car from the ground up and fortunately did take many photos at the teardown stage. I think an important thing to remember is this was a mass produced car mostly put together by humans and to say "ALL" should have or not have a particular detail is just not accurate. Good luck on your restoration and I hope these photos help.   Chris

[emptys]

Thanks Chris, those do help

Jeff, from Chris's interior picture, it seems like the kick area was painted the car's slop color,  is this typical for early dearborn?  From your post i'd think it should be natural...

[emptys]

Chris, you had mentioned in another post that you identified some red oxide in the interior, do you by chance have a picture of that?

[J_Speegle]

Jeff, from Chris's interior picture, it seems like the kick area was painted the car's slop color,  is this typical for early dearborn?  From your post i'd think it should be natural...

Will admit that I haven't gotten allot of calls for interior finish information over the last 30 years so I don't take as many pictures of these (not seen once the car is together) details

Looking at other "early" 69 Dearborn built examples it appears that the side area (where the kick panels will go) that Chris posted pictures of is pretty typical though later in the year this practice was dropped. You still find that allot of restorers do black out this area just because it looks better on a finished car even if it was not originally done.

The examples I found were built before and after your car so with Chris's example it covers the practice well at this point

Blue exterior car



Red oxide and darkened area



As for other "black out areas" on a sportroof at Dearborn 69, looking at my pictures it appears that that plant and time they didn't do what other plants and months in relationship to addressing those other areas


So addition interior shots from the first half of 69 production at Dearborn

Matches my description above as far as interior overspray of exterior color. Amount of overspray can differ allot

[cobrajetchris]

I found some more photos that may help as far as the interior area of the firewall. Like the photos Jeff has it was red oxide. The area around the VIN tag was not originally blacked out as you can see in one of the photos however I did fudge on that a little and blacked it out for appearance reasons like Jeff mentioned. It just looks better especially on a brighter color car contrasting a black dash board. I found a shot of the lt. qtr. panel inside area with the sound deadener applied however the rt. qtr. panel was replaced at one time so not sure if it was applied there but I went ahead and applied it on the rt. side when I restored the car assuming it was there. I guess the thing that surprised me the most was the extent of the coverage of the slop blue metallic undercarriage color. The entire underside and engine bay was painted as you can see in areas the seat bolt access hole covers were removed along with the shock tower cover bolt head areas. The transmission tunnel and rear frame rails had good coverage also with a good amount of body color overspray applied.

[emptys]

Thanks Chris,

Jeff, in the interior shot of the images which Chris posted, i'm seeing grey slop painted on the interior kick panels,  and it doesn't seem to be overspray,  was this typical?

[J_Speegle]

.............I guess the thing that surprised me the most was the extent of the coverage of the slop blue metallic undercarriage color. The entire underside and engine bay was painted as you can see............

Yes remember your pictures - yours is one of maybe 4-5 that we've found that had the additional use of the batch color at Dearborn in 69. Something much more typically found on 70's at that plant.

[emptys]

I'd like to get some feedback to see if this slop color looks about right, or whether it needs some adjustment --