Topic: What's the deal with this Hood Hinge and Spring for a 65 Mustang?

[markb0729]

I was thumbing through the Collectors Originality Guide for 1964 1/2 - 1966 Mustangs by Colin Date and noticed this picture on page 35 of a hood hinge and spring for a 1965 Mustang.  The hinge in the picture is obviously not painted but it also doesn't look like a natural or phosphate and oil finish.  Has anyone ever seen this color hinge on a 65 Mustang.  Maybe it just the lighting in the picture.  Thoughts?

[lancelot66]

It'll be interesting what others have to say here and I saw this years ago when I bought his book. Our car's hinges look exactly the same. The previous owner had painted the car before I bought it from them so I had to clean off the overspray and some areas where the paint hit them pretty well on those flat, outer surfaces. Once I had done that (had to remove each spring to get them cleaned right), they came out looking just like Colin's photo. I just wipe them down with Boeshield every year and leave them alone. I did buy some repro springs from NPD a couple of years ago (kept my originals), and they're nicer, better finish (true phosphate and oil) but they're darker than those in Colin's photo that you've posted and would expect. Overall, I'm fairly happy with them until I have the car painted again one of these days. Had some very knowledgeable guys (believe 2 were judges) come by the car and discuss several things about our car at the MCA Grand National show in Bellevue, WA, a few years ago. This finish came up in our conversations and they thought I should re-do them at some point. There almost seems as though there's a remnant protective coating on them from factory new, because they don't ever rust or become oxidized at all. Maybe its credit to the Boeshield. I love this stuff....

[NEFaurora]

"Collectors Originality Guide for 1964 1/2 - 1966 Mustangs by Colin Date"

There are many, many errors in this book though it has some nice pictures.  Mr. Date should have taken pictures of original Concours cars instead of just regular "Restored" ones.

)

Tony K.

[CharlesTurner]

Looks like the spring was painted with cast-blast paint or similar 'cast natural' appearance paint.

[markb0729]

"Once I had done that (had to remove each spring to get them cleaned right), they came out looking just like Colin's photo." 

That's interesting.  Maybe that's what was done in this picture.  I guess we'll never know.

"I did buy some repro springs from NPD a couple of years ago (kept my originals), and they're nicer, better finish (true phosphate and oil) but they're darker than those in Colin's photo that you've posted and would expect."

That's good to know.  I need to refinish my springs so I'll put this in my back pocket as plan B.

"Collectors Originality Guide for 1964 1/2 - 1966 Mustangs by Colin Date"

There are many, many errors in this book though it has some nice pictures.  Mr. Date should have taken pictures of original Concours cars instead of just regular "Restored" ones.

It's a nice concise high level book.  I agree that it would have been much better if it included pictures of original cars along with the restored pics.  A lot of "reference books" have mistakes and this just helps perpetuate incorrect details in restorations and arguments between owners.  Not good. 

Looks like the spring was painted with cast-blast paint or similar 'cast natural' appearance paint.

That could explain it.  On that note, would the springs in the picture get a point deduction in an MCA judged event?  How about an AACA judged event?  I'm curios because I'm restoring my September 2, 1964 Dearborn built Fastback and would like to keep it as close to original as possible.

[CharlesTurner]

That could explain it.  On that note, would the springs in the picture get a point deduction in an MCA judged event?  How about an AACA judged event?  I'm curios because I'm restoring my September 2, 1964 Dearborn built Fastback and would like to keep it as close to original as possible.

Your September '64 car would most likely have had hood hinges painted black.  The phosphate finish didn't start in production until late October/November '64.

In regards to using paint... MCA and AACA both allow original appearance paint to be used, so long as it replicates the correct appearance of the part.  In the picture provided, there could be a point deduction for the scratched paint on the hinge, but most likely would be ok otherwise.  For MCA, there was talk in the past about prohibiting natural appearance for concours trailered level cars, but don't believe anything ever came of it.

[ChrisV289]

Your September '64 car would most likely have had hood hinges painted black.  The phosphate finish didn't start in production until late October/November '64.

Charles (or Jeff) do you know an approximate date or VIN they phased out the black hinges in San Jose?   

[markb0729]

Your September '64 car would most likely have had hood hinges painted black.  The phosphate finish didn't start in production until late October/November '64.

Thanks Charles, good information.  Much appreciated.

"In regards to using paint... MCA and AACA both allow original appearance paint to be used, so long as it replicates the correct appearance of the part.  In the picture provided, there could be a point deduction for the scratched paint on the hinge, but most likely would be ok otherwise

So that color hinge and spring (minus the scratch) would be ok?

[Bob Gaines]

Thanks Charles, good information.  Much appreciated.

So that color hinge and spring (minus the scratch) would be ok?

The problem is what with the close tolerance at the attachment points of the hinge there is always rubbing of the paint on the hinge of a faux phosphate and oil painted finish creating a never ending maintenance issue as far as scratching . I have found a good genuine phosphate plating along with the use of a rust inhibitor like Boe Shield or like product is superior to the painted hinge in appearance and maintenance (for original look). Just my opinion, others may have different.

[jwc66k]

One of the high tech companies I worked for as a production control manager had a sheet metal subsidiary, so I saw raw cold rolled (CRS)and hot rolled (HRS) steel and the parts made from them. Depending on thickness, CRS that was supplied as a roll or from flat plates were a medium metallic gray, HRS was darker. Even after stamping, CRS retains its gray color, which is what hood hinges are made from. The stamping process utilized a special oil as a lubricant to reduce wear on the tooling. The oil was not removed as it was also a rust inhibitor. After parts were assembled, some moving, many more welded together, the assemblies that were to be painted were dipped in solvent to clean them. Parts to be zinc plated were dipped in an acid bath prior to plating by the plating subcontractor. I cannot remember if any of the parts we produced were phosphated. A sample of the gray metallic color would be the steel bars sold at Home Depot. Springs, by the process that makes them, are heat treated steel and are very dark, almost black, also oily. A light phosphate finish is about as close as you can come to parts made from CRS. Be advised that an oily part attracts dust.
Jim

[Bob Gaines]

One of the high tech companies I worked for as a production control manager had a sheet metal subsidiary, so I saw raw cold rolled (CRS)and hot rolled (HRS) steel and the parts made from them. Depending on thickness, CRS that was supplied as a roll or from flat plates were a medium metallic gray, HRS was darker. Even after stamping, CRS retains its gray color, which is what hood hinges are made from. The stamping process utilized a special oil as a lubricant to reduce wear on the tooling. The oil was not removed as it was also a rust inhibitor. After parts were assembled, some moving, many more welded together, the assemblies that were to be painted were dipped in solvent to clean them. Parts to be zinc plated were dipped in an acid bath prior to plating by the plating subcontractor. I cannot remember if any of the parts we produced were phosphated. A sample of the gray metallic color would be the steel bars sold at Home Depot. Springs, by the process that makes them, are heat treated steel and are very dark, almost black, also oily. A light phosphate finish is about as close as you can come to parts made from CRS. Be advised that an oily part attracts dust.
Jim

Jim, FYI some of the oil based rust inhibitor products will dry to the touch depending on application (T9 Boe Shield) . A light coating will dry to the touch.Because it can dry it does not attract dust or dirt as much.  A light coating admittedly needs reapplication more often . Week, month year depending on circumstances .A heavier coating requires less re application but will attract dust. A wipe of a inhibitor dampened towel will remove most dust. Just thought I would comment.

[Shasmu]

https://www.facebook.com/236750483008575/photos/a.997951396888476.1073741899.236750483008575/1038516602831955/?type=1&theater
'65 15J date code San Jose 63a. Are these hinges correct?

 https://www.facebook.com/236750483008575/photos/a.997951396888476.1073741899.236750483008575/997954583554824/?type=1&theater

 

[jwc66k]

The hinges have a date code of 9 2, the second 2 I think is the shift. They look correct for September 1964 build, maybe even September 1965 build for a 66.
These I did in early 2012 for a 65 Mustang.
Jim

[markb0729]

Thanks Jim.  They look to be painted.  Correct?

[jwc66k]

Thanks Jim.  They look to be painted.  Correct?

Phosphate and oil, with the springs left in the hot phosphoric bath for a longer period of time to replicate the heat treatment that springs get.
Jim