Topic: '68 dual exhaust rear leaf spring shackles

[Bob Gaines]

Sounds like a job for Special Ed 

[sportyworty]

Ed I would say your reply makes sense as the GTE did not have the valance cut out and yes completely different rear pad, spring length etc. They also used the pre CJ 2.00 OD pipe like a 390 car for interest sake.

[jwc66k]

Respectfully, this is the kind of comment in this hobby that kills me...   and why I feel MCA is a fatally flawed organization.

Basically, this common refrain that "It is too hard to write down what I know is right"

Flame suit on...  but I call BS.

A lot of data?  Yes, of course. But for most that would indicate the need to document, not memorize?

Bob Mannel did a great job (in 1998) that shows it can be done. If he can do what he did for ~8 years of Ford small blocks, as an individual, ~15 years ago, it seems odd the MCA can't even come close to 1/10th (maybe 1/100th?) of the info he provided in written form to this day. Let alone he dug into engine internals and a lot of stuff most folks don't see, and most judging focuses on mainly the open and obvious.

After 35-ish years (don't recall exactly when MCA came to be, mid 70s'?) for the MCA to hold up a few pages of sketchy information in the open, and provide judging sheets that are seen as intellectual property with instructions not to distribute the forms and results?  Corporation, not cooperation? 

The view that "it is easier to remember all aspects of a few years of one car's details by tribal lore and oral history and regurgitation/rote than by writing it down"... ??  Really?

I'd suggest a few centuries supporting the small growth of documentation from the invention of the printing press, to encyclopedias, to web pages, to Wikipedia, etc. have shown oral histories are a bit weak as a formal source of documentation. 

Not a popular opinion, for sure, but I'll stand by it.

When you're right, stand by it, and I'll stand with you.
Jim

[TLea]

well...I'll hijack my hijacked thread on this comment... 

 
Respectfully, this is the kind of comment in this hobby that kills me...   and why I feel MCA is a fatally flawed organization.

Basically, this common refrain that "It is too hard to write down what I know is right"

Flame suit on...  but I call BS.

A lot of data?  Yes, of course. But for most that would indicate the need to document, not memorize?

Bob Mannel did a great job (in 1998) that shows it can be done. If he can do what he did for ~8 years of Ford small blocks, as an individual, ~15 years ago, it seems odd the MCA can't even come close to 1/10th (maybe 1/100th?) of the info he provided in written form to this day. Let alone he dug into engine internals and a lot of stuff most folks don't see, and most judging focuses on mainly the open and obvious.

After 35-ish years (don't recall exactly when MCA came to be, mid 70s'?) for the MCA to hold up a few pages of sketchy information in the open, and provide judging sheets that are seen as intellectual property with instructions not to distribute the forms and results?  Corporation, not cooperation? 

The view that "it is easier to remember all aspects of a few years of one car's details by tribal lore and oral history and regurgitation/rote than by writing it down"... ??  Really?

I'd suggest a few centuries supporting the small growth of documentation from the invention of the printing press, to encyclopedias, to web pages, to Wikipedia, etc. have shown oral histories are a bit weak as a formal source of documentation. 

Not a popular opinion, for sure, but I'll stand by it.

Well since it was my comment you are calling BS, I will address it and I dont need a flame suit. Bob Mannel wrote a book. Bob Mannel got paid for his book. Richard, do you want to pay me to write you a book? I will be happy to write down everything I know about Mustangs and sell it to you. Otherwise I, like most people, have to earn a living which is why we come on here and volunteer information. I repeat, volunteer. You speak with an expectation that you are entitled to this knowledge and if it doesnt get delivered in a package you like you type up a derogatory reply like this. Not even sure what it has to do with MCA. If you dont care for the information as it is presented then go and get it elsewhere. In the meantime its my knowledge and I will relay it anyway I see fit.
My reply may not be popular to you but I'm sticking by it.

[specialed]

Well said tim & if we got paid for all our free information & years of research we wouldn't have to work for a living & I don't mind giving out info to other restorers that give info in return but its usually a 1 way street.

[dave6768]

Well said tim & if we got paid for all our free information & years of research we wouldn't have to work for a living & I don't mind giving out info to other restorers that give info in return but its usually a 1 way street.

I'm at the bottom of the food chain knowledge, but do appreciate all the volunteering that goes on here.  I do try to give back when I can, but don't have much to offer most of the times. 

[sportyworty]

+1 Tim
Many of us have invested copious amounts of time and resources over the years and share quite freely
Some think it is just easier to have the answers given and show no appreciation.
Some are very grateful and soon we see them paying it forward to others as they learn.
It does not take long to see which category a regular poster falls in regardless of which forum.

I am in the parts business and get calls and emails all day with people wanting me to tell them what something they have or have even seen is worth . I delete all my classifieds for this exact reason once sold. Some understand and some do it constantly.

[67gtasanjose]

PLEASE! discontinue the off topic related conversations in this thread and start a new one if more off topic debate is needed.

I really appreciate all the input from other restorers and try to offer help when I think I have something to offer. So many of you have given your life to this hobby and/or made it a career. I wouldn't expect you to share everything you know in an open forum, though it is nice to get a few pointers to lead us "newbies" in the field the right direction for our project(s). I suppose emotions can and do run high because we have a passion, a passion for various reasons. Mostly a good passion, but sometimes, not so good. The bottom line is we all would like to achieve good results with our work with a minimum effort or expense.

As I have said before, the combined knowledge available at this site is invaluable. I feel unavailable anywhere else. If we drive somebody, ANYBODY away with harsh comments, we deprive the whole community of their potential input. A GREATER harm has then occurred.

Please, lets place principles above personalities whenever possible.

Richard

[TLea]

PLEASE! discontinue the off topic related conversations in this thread and start a new one if more off topic debate is needed.
Please, lets place principles above personalities whenever possible.

Richard

Richard, It was the original poster that steered the thread that direction. Sometimes you just need to point at the elephant walking around the house. Anything else would be avoidance
Now back to cars 

[67gtasanjose]

Richard, It was the original poster that steered the thread that direction. Sometimes you just need to point at the elephant walking around the house. Anything else would be avoidance
Now back to cars 

I know, but yes when I read that I thought, "Here we go"...and "There" we went...

[Scott Fuller]

Some think it is just easier to have the answers given and show no appreciation.

I think this is where the issue usually occurs.  The expectation for full disclosure of information from knowledgeable posters that has been gained and gathered at great cost (both time and money).  From what I've seen, most share pretty openly what they know.  Knowledge about our Mustangs is easy to come by now, compared to the past when the only way to gather it was to go to junk yards, buy original unrestored cars, and attend car shows.  Full documentation of Mustangs is attainable.  But without compensation by MCA or SAAC to gather and coordinate the information, it's probably not going to happen.   

Scott