Author Topic: Engine tag - 67 thermactor  (Read 4120 times)

Offline 67gta289

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Engine tag - 67 thermactor
« on: July 28, 2014, 09:07:44 PM »
Yes (the thermactor air pump bracket was originally -ed) painted on the block up through 69 - this includes 67.  Sure I've got maybe a half dozen of those unless I've thrown some away recently
Have seen service replacements that were painted black
Splitting off from a different post discussing the color of the thermactor air pump bracket.  The answer was that the bracket was painted on the block.

As a natural extension of the "right" answer, it is more than likely then that the bracket was mounted to the engine (and painted) at the engine assembly plant.  Since in the case of the 289-2V in 1967 (and probably all engines) the thermactor model received a unique distributor (curve) and carb (tuning), it adds up that the bracket would also be installed there.

Furthermore, it would make sense that the thermactor equipped engine would receive a different engine number to distinquish it from the non-thermactor equivalent.  While SJ installed a lot of thermactor engines, it was certainly not an exclusive deal.  I've seen at least two reports of Dearborn assembled cars with thermactor.  Engine numbers would be the mechanism to get the right quantities of engines to the locations where they were needed.

Looking at the Mannel book in appendix A, the "engine number" is a three digit integer.  Continuing with the C-code as the example, there are 19 engine numbers spanning from 1964 to 1969.  The variations account for the year, the vehicle (Mustang, Falcon, etc.), the transmission (auto/man), and specialty applications (taxi/police).  There is no mention of thermactor at all pre-68.  So apparently the "engine code" does not account for the thermactor system with the exception of 1968/69 302 engines as noted in the tables.

I've looked through the book and don't find the answer for thermactor equipped engines.

Looking at the engine number on my car, which was thermactor equipped, it is "289 E 67 FoMoCo" on the first line and "M  E-236-B  15" on the second line.  The full "engine number" (Mannel's term) is E-236-B.  Mannel's book refers to the "E" as the prefix, and the "B" as the suffix.  However, it does not really provide any answers as to their meaning.

At this point, since we know that the thermactor 236 engine was equipped differently than a non thermactor 236 engine, I would propose that either the "E" prefix or "B" suffix provides that detail.  Now if "E" as the prefix stands for "Emissions" that would make perhaps too much sense.

For those that are willing to share some "original" data from small blocks, please provide the engine (1) build date, (2) number (including prefix and suffix if any), (3) revision level, and (4) whether or not the vehicle had thermactor emissions.   Note that the build date, number, and revision are engine tag line two from left to right.

Thanks.
 
« Last Edit: July 28, 2014, 10:42:22 PM by J_Speegle »
John
67 289 GTA Dec 20 1966 San Jose
7R02C156xxx
MCA 74660

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: Engine tag - 67 thermactor
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2014, 11:19:44 PM »
John, you will remember I went down this road some when I needed a tag and wished to get the right information on it. It will be interesting to see if anything new shows up.

"7R02A" (his name is John also) gave some details of his engine build dates and an image of his engine tag
Look at page two of this post again.

 http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=8221.msg48209#msg48209

Richard
« Last Edit: July 28, 2014, 11:28:48 PM by 67gtasanjose »
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) GTA Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Int./Ext. Decor +many options

2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Engine tag - 67 thermactor
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2014, 11:32:42 PM »
Looking at the April MPC even then there is only one reference (for the engine ID code)  to a thermactor application and it looks like its a 68 289 service replacement engine


Don't have many (only one) engine ID tags and its not easy to read but maybe it will help

This from 7R03C18837xx   a Thermactor equipped car. Another related application would 67 Dearborn Cougars shipped to California for more samples


Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline 67gta289

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Re: Engine tag - 67 thermactor
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2014, 08:04:19 AM »
Thanks Richard and Jeff.

Yes I certainly recall the thread.  It was the air pump bracket color discussion that caused me to rekindle the issue.

Mannel does talk about the engine number suffix generally corresponding to revision levels, but since there is a place for the revision level already, duplicating that information would seem a waste.

I'm still leaning towards the E- prefix as denoting thermactor equipment.  With John's information, and the one posted by Jeff, plus mine, that gives us three examples of thermactor cars with the E- prefix.

Three out of a lot is not much.  But we are batting 1000.
John
67 289 GTA Dec 20 1966 San Jose
7R02C156xxx
MCA 74660

Offline 67gtasanjose

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Re: Engine tag - 67 thermactor
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2014, 09:09:29 AM »


I'm still leaning towards the E- prefix as denoting thermactor equipment.  With John's information, and the one posted by Jeff, plus mine, that gives us three examples of thermactor cars with the E- prefix.

Three out of a lot is not much.  But we are batting 1000.

Hey, I certainly hope so! I had that tag made based on Mannel's book & both "John's" posts to the other thread! I could redo it if I had to, but doubt I need to. Hopefully, others will concur.

Richard
Richard Urch

1967 (11/2/66, S.J.) GTA Luxury Coupe, 289-4V w/Thermactor Emissions, C-4, Int./Ext. Decor +many options

2005 (04/05) GT Premium Convertible, Windveil Blue, Parchment Top w/Med. Parchment interior,  Roush Body Appointments

Offline Deuce

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Re: Engine tag - 67 thermactor
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2014, 09:33:49 AM »
I know I am joining this discussion late; I just joined this forum a few days ago.  (Hope it's OK to post after more than 120 days).

My car:  1967 C-code coupe, Dec 66 San Jose, DSO 71, 7R01C1474xx

It has the internal type Thermactor, with air passages inside the cylinder head (no external air manifolds).  The T/E system is still intact and functioning.

My engine tag:

289 E 67 FoMoCo
L F 236-B 15

I too am curious what the tag codes mean.

Thanks,



Deuce
1967 C-code Hardtop Coupe, C-4, AC, PS, T/E; SJ built Nov 30 1966, DSO 71___Unrestored
2008 Premium GT Coupe, 5-speed, rear spoiler delete, HID headlamps, well-optioned, built Oct 23 2007, RC 72

Offline Deuce

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Re: Engine tag - 67 thermactor
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2014, 10:32:43 AM »
ps,

Related to the 67 Thermactor topic,

From my car's original window sticker, the Thermactor system was among the options that the customer bought with the car:

EXHAUST EMISSION CONTROL            45.45
CLOSED CRANKCASE EMISSION SYS    5.19

BASE 289 2V 8CYL ENGINE                105.63

Deuce
1967 C-code Hardtop Coupe, C-4, AC, PS, T/E; SJ built Nov 30 1966, DSO 71___Unrestored
2008 Premium GT Coupe, 5-speed, rear spoiler delete, HID headlamps, well-optioned, built Oct 23 2007, RC 72

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Engine tag - 67 thermactor
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2014, 02:24:10 PM »
ps,

Related to the 67 Thermactor topic,

From my car's original window sticker, the Thermactor system was among the options that the customer bought with the car:

Not really an option (since buyers in that region didn't have the "option" to choose)  but I think we get the point ;)

Thanks for sharing  - some of the markings are described above - some we're still searching for
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline Fastback2013

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Re: Engine tag - 67 thermactor
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2014, 02:31:29 PM »
Welcome Deuce
For me no problem at all for stepping in 120 days after start... I do that also  ;)
OK, since we are stepping in :
picture is detail of engine tag.
My car came also with the thermactor system.
First line : 289 E 67 Fomoco
second line : A E 236-B 15
It looks that '236-B 15' is coming back with all of our cars, but the prefix is different :
Johns : M E
Deuce : L F
Myself : A E
Meaning what?
Kind regards,
Jeroen
San Jose 7R02C1708xx
Fastback GTA
built on 01/12/1967

Offline jwc66k

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Re: Engine tag - 67 thermactor
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2014, 03:40:11 PM »
My car:  1967 C-code coupe, Dec 66 San Jose, DSO 71, 7R01C1474xx
It has the internal type Thermactor, with air passages inside the cylinder head (no external air manifolds).  The T/E system is still intact and functioning.
My engine tag:
289 E 67 FoMoCo
L F 236-B 15
This is not complete:
289 = Displacement
E = plant, Windsor
67 = year
FOMOCO = a small auto company located on the Rouge River
L = month, November
F = not sure, may be part of engine type including smog
236-B = 289 2 barrel (C code) and transmission type, may be also smog related
15 = revision level
Engine tags are formatted differently between Cleveland and Windsor plants.
This info is from "Mustang and Ford Small Block V8" and Ford Car Parts, Sec 60 page 2.
Jim
I promise to be politically correct in all my posts to keep the BBBB from vociferating.

Offline Deuce

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Re: Engine tag - 67 thermactor
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2014, 07:44:28 PM »
That's quite a find that all three have 236-B.

Thinking out loud, my motor with T/E also has factory AC and PS. What engineers would have addressed today with a serp belt, back then we added more pulleys and v-belts for engine-driven accessories.   My car has a seven-blade fan w/clutch and a three sheave crankshaft pulley.

Any connection there, for F compared to E?

Just a shot in the dark.

Deuce
1967 C-code Hardtop Coupe, C-4, AC, PS, T/E; SJ built Nov 30 1966, DSO 71___Unrestored
2008 Premium GT Coupe, 5-speed, rear spoiler delete, HID headlamps, well-optioned, built Oct 23 2007, RC 72

Offline 67gta289

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Re: Engine tag - 67 thermactor
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2014, 08:37:17 PM »
From Bob Mannel's book, available here: http://www.fordsmallblock.com/ I've posted a few "tease" pictures of the 728 pages.  You should buy it if you don't have it.

Since engine number 236 applied to all 289 2-V's mated to automatic transmissions in 66, 67, and 68 for the Mustang (F) and other car lines, we should not be surprised to find them just about anywhere.

There are questions in regards to both the prefix and suffix of the engine number as stated in the original post in this topic.

Based on the evidence observed, my opinion is that the E- prefix represents thermactor emissions.  But I don't have documentation to back that up.

I don't think that front end accessories, pulleys, fans, etc. render into the equation because they were bolt ons at the vehicle assembly plant.  I've reposted a picture of a small block from the Cleveland plant http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=8517.0 that shows how the engine was dressed.

That said, at some point the anti-stall dashpot was installed for A/C equipped cars, and that would probably be done at the engine plant, requiring specificity most likely in prefix or suffix.  Same goes for the temperature vacuum switch which showed up in 68 IIRC.

Need more research and data on this one.
John
67 289 GTA Dec 20 1966 San Jose
7R02C156xxx
MCA 74660