Topic: Front suspension finish & paint marks - Oct 64 SJ Hipo

[livetoride60]

Working on my front suspension parts and wanted to confirm the finishes and paint marks I think I'm seeing.  Oct 64 San Jose hipo Fastback. 

Strut rods - natural steel with possible paint marks on the bottom side (side with dash mark) near the end. 
Strut rod stops - natural steel with redish mark / dot.  Red dot only on drivers side.
Springs - blackish heat treated steel with rose paint marks.  Does not look like black paint, but steel has a blackish appearance.
Disc brake spindles - painted black with pink paint marks.  Some sound deadner / undercoating on bottoms.
Disc brake shields - painted / dipped black with sound deadner / undercoating on inner facing side towards the bottom. 

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Rich

[J_Speegle]

Strut rods - natural steel with possible paint marks on the bottom side (side with dash mark) near the end.  - Haven't seen ones there before. Have seen Dearborn ones (non- K code) marked elsewhere

Strut rod stops - natural steel with redish mark / dot - Typical non- K code thing. Have been found on both side and sometimes only on drivers side one

Springs - blackish heat treated steel with rose paint marks.  Does not look like black paint, but steel has a blackish appearance.- Have seen a strong red to a muddy red on these. red is what is called out in the 65 TSB article describing the "new" Hipo suspension parts. Finish on the springs matches what I've seen for years from the heat treating and quenching though it can take on the look of paint.


Disc brake spindles - painted black with pink paint marks.  Some sound deadner / undercoating on bottoms. - Never seen spindles painted. Have you tried a aircraft stripper on it yet so that the paint would bubble?  Have found oil quenching which when the oil is old and dirty can produce a blackish finish that can be chipped, rubbed or sanded away but will not bubble like paint.  The sound deadener is likely a worker with bad aim at the end of assembly. Have examples were they got the stuff on tie rods and adjusters but not typically bad enough to get it on the A arms or spindle - always a first


Disc brake shields - painted / dipped black with sound deadener / undercoating on inner facing side towards the bottom. -  Same response to the sound deadener as above

Nice finds - find anything more on the spindles?  You barely scratched the surface of all the possible markings that have been found on those

[Bob Gaines]

I have not come across painted black spindles originally . I have however seen the heat treated spindle surface mistaken for being painted because of the black and blue gray flake look the heat treating process imparts onto the piece.

[livetoride60]

I have not come across painted black spindles originally . I have however seen the heat treated spindle surface mistaken for being painted because of the black and blue gray flake look the heat treating process imparts onto the piece.

Disc brake spindles - painted black with pink paint marks.  Some sound deadner / undercoating on bottoms. - Never seen spindles painted. Have you tried a aircraft stripper on it yet so that the paint would bubble?  Have found oil quenching which when the oil is old and dirty can produce a blackish finish that can be chipped, rubbed or sanded away but will not bubble like paint. 

Nice finds - find anything more on the spindles?  You barely scratched the surface of all the possible markings that have been found on those

The spindle definitely has the black & blue flake look both of you describe, so sounds like just the normal heat treat / oil quench finish.  I will give it the paint stripper bubble test to be sure, and see if I can find more markings.

Strut rods - natural steel with possible paint marks on the bottom side (side with dash mark) near the end.  - Haven't seen ones there before. Have seen Dearborn ones (non- K code) marked elsewhere

I read somewhere about green (I think) paint on the bottoms to show which side is down.  I'll look closer for more, but weren't any jumping out at me.

Strut rod stops - natural steel with redish mark / dot - Typical non- K code thing. Have been found on both side and sometimes only on drivers side one

Forgot to mention I only found the red mark on one side, drivers side.

Springs - blackish heat treated steel with rose paint marks.  Does not look like black paint, but steel has a blackish appearance.- Have seen a strong red to a muddy red on these. red is what is called out in the 65 TSB describing the "new" Hipo suspension parts. Finish on the springs matches what I've seen for years from the heat treating and quenching though it can take on the look of paint.

Good deal.

The sound deadener is likely a worker with bad aim at the end of assembly. Have examples were they got the stuff on tie rods and adjusters but not typically bad enough to get it on the A arms or spindle - always a first

I scraped it off and looks like a combo of age old compacted grease and maybe a shot of deadner.  Most of it didn't flake like I've seen the brown deadner do before, but in the pic of the shield it sure has that appearance from the surface.  May be the saturation of grease.

Thanks for the input!  Off to do more evaporusting, brushing, etc, etc.

[CharlesTurner]

I read somewhere about green (I think) paint on the bottoms to show which side is down.  I'll look closer for more, but weren't any jumping out at me.

It's usually a small yellow daub to indicate orientation.  The assembly manual actually calls this out.  Have found the yellow mark on lots of original strut rods, regardless of assembly plant.

[J_Speegle]

It's usually a small yellow daub to indicate orientation.  The assembly manual actually calls this out.  Have found the yellow mark on lots of original strut rods, regardless of assembly plant.

Pictures I've got has that mark further forward on the arms as fairly small.  Same thing that you've seen Charles?

[CharlesTurner]

Pictures I've got has that mark further forward on the arms as fairly small.  Same thing that you've seen Charles?

Oh yeah, definitely further out, usually about in the middle or so. 

[livetoride60]

Update and questions:

- Strut rods - Soaked in evaporust and fully stripped.  Didn't find any paint marks on them.

- Spindles - Tried putting paint stripper on the blue / black metal flake and it did NOT bubble.  Based on this it looks like typical oil quenching deposits as Jeff and Bob suggested.  Also, fully cleaned the drivers side spindle and found mostly pink paint marks all over, with a couple bits of red and blue.  Possibly some white, but that may just be faded pink.  See pics.

- Springs - evaporusted to get marks, then bead blasted, gun blued, neutralized in a water / baking soda bath, and gave a light coat of Diamond clear.  I used the Birchwood-Casey "Super Blue" instead of the regular "Perma Blue".  The result is more black than blue.  I also read on a gun site about neutralizing in a baking soda bath since the gun blue is acidic, so tried it.  My first go round I blued one spring with the "Perma Blue" outside on a humid day and it flash rusted all over in about 5 minutes.  I restripped then blued both using the "Super Blue" in my air conditioned basement and had no more flash rusting problems, even after the baking soda bath.  I don't know if the difference was the different product or the low humidity, but I'd guess the latter.

Questions:
1) Should I go with a red stripe on the springs as indicated by the '65 TSB you mentioned Jeff, or make it match what I originally found which is a rose color (see pics I originally posted)?  Do these typically fade that much?

2) Any input on the colors and marks on my spindles?  Look typical for my plant, time, & car?

Thanks,
Rich

[J_Speegle]

First thanks for reporting back on your findings and good to see they support the current understands

Questions:
1) Should I go with a red stripe on the springs as indicated by the '65 TSB you mentioned Jeff, or make it match what I originally found which is a rose color (see pics I originally posted)?  Do these typically fade that much?

IMHO if you have cleaned through the top surface to the base color I would document and redo using the color you found. I've found that Hipo springs marked "red", for some reason have a real wide range of tones for some reason. Much more than any other color used to mark items - we'll 69 HD strut washer and spindles are a close second)   I've seen from strong reds to muddy almost browns and would stick with what you've found and can feel comfortable with

2) Any input on the colors and marks on my spindles?  Look typical for my plant, time, & car?

Spindles can be challenging IMHO sometimes lots of small marks other times it looks like they used a 6" house paint brush to apply some marks at  San Jose
But in response to your question IMHO yes you have found the original markings for your plant, car and period of time. Notes are as follows



The marks/color on the arms of the spindles are pretty typical of 64-65 ones before December

The colors you found on the upper vertical arm of the spindle I've seen on others though amount of coverage varied

Mark at the bottom of the spindle facing the lower arm I've seen in two different colors - the one you found is one of those two. Check the inside face of that knukel for an additional small mark - faces the center of the car

The small red mark at the top of the arm close to the upper A arm is a different color than others I've seen. Likely a period/time difference

Are these the C3 or the C5 cast spindles?

Hope this helps

[livetoride60]

That does help. Thanks Jeff.

Mark at the bottom of the spindle facing the lower arm I've seen in two different colors - the one you found is one of those two. Check the inside face of that knukel for an additional small mark - faces the center of the car

I think you're talking about the knuckle for the lower control arm?  If so, the inside face of it has a small pink mark, as does the inside face of the upper control arm knuckle.  Also possibly a trace of yellow on each, but hard to tell if it's just rust or paint.  See pics.

Are these the C3 or the C5 cast spindles?

These are C5.

The small red mark at the top of the arm close to the upper A arm is a different color than others I've seen. Likely a period/time difference

I'll see what the other spindle reveals, if it matches, etc.  Thanks again.  Back to the parts washer.....

[livetoride60]

Springs done.  Mark looks pretty pink in this light, but really more of a rose.  Original marks looked rose colored. 

[J_Speegle]

Springs done.  Mark looks pretty pink in this light, but really more of a rose.  Original marks looked rose colored.

Thanks for sharing and mentioning to all that the color when viewed is not like the original color. For all those lurkers out there

Would agree it was allot more red than what shows on my screen - keep up the effort

[livetoride60]

Spindles can be challenging IMHO sometimes lots of small marks other times it looks like they used a 6" house paint brush to apply some marks at  San Jose
But in response to your question IMHO yes you have found the original markings for your plant, car and period of time. Notes are as follows

The marks/color on the arms of the spindles are pretty typical of 64-65 ones before December

The colors you found on the upper vertical arm of the spindle I've seen on others though amount of coverage varied

Mark at the bottom of the spindle facing the lower arm I've seen in two different colors - the one you found is one of those two. Check the inside face of that knukel for an additional small mark - faces the center of the car

The small red mark at the top of the arm close to the upper A arm is a different color than others I've seen. Likely a period/time difference

Jeff (or anyone else) - well finally got my other (pass side) spindle cleaned.  Pics below.  This one doesn't have the blue on the upper arm like the drivers side, but does have aqua-green marks on the inside knuckle faces (facing center of car as you noted).  Drivers side spindle didn't have that, or at least wasn't there after 50 years....had traces of red marks instead. 

Easy to see pink is liberally applied at SJ, even on the bottom.

So some questions.  Got to get these to the body shop tomorrow hopefully. 

1) Is that inside face mark on the knuckles usually green / blue green? 

2) Are these inside knuckle face marks typically the same color on both sides, and if so green?  Mine look like green on pass side and red on drivers, although as you noted red is a color you hadn't seen.

3) Planning to make these spindles dark using black oxide solution, like my caliper bracket here http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=9774.msg57648#msg57648
Is that good shade for spindles?  Think it would be considering the dark gray residue I found from the oil quenching process.  Most spindles I see on finished cars are a medium or lighter gray, like Eastwood Detail Gray.

Thanks,
Rich

[J_Speegle]

Easy to see pink is liberally applied at SJ, even on the bottom.

Believe you will find that parts were "marked" for identification at the provider not at the assembly plants

1) Is that inside face mark on the knuckles usually green / blue green?

Trying to only look at similar C5DA spindles for comparison purposes

Don't have allot of 65 examples or spindle marks in general since most don't get saved. There are a handful of different spindles that were used on early Mustangs and allot of different marks which may be intentional and some may just be paint slapped around while applying marks elsewhere on the spindle making this not an easy subject so far to figure out. Your lucky that yours are so easy to see and you took the time to look and document them

From what I understand there should be an identifier that identifies the spindle, which end is up  and which end is down (inside small daubs at knuckles). There are likely one or two for inspections and testing - like for the hardness test. and possibly for the machining. I would like to be of more help but only can offer what I've collected and documented and do not want to over reach. Even went back to my paper notes and binders for this question

2) Are these inside knuckle face marks typically the same color on both sides, and if so green?  Mine look like green on pass side and red on drivers, although as you noted red is a color you hadn't seen.

In your pictures above I saw the red mentioned on the outer surface of the upper spindle while the teal (like the lower knuckle) was on the inner surface. Are we talking about these two marks? We don't want to compare markings from different locations IMHO

Generally if the spindles are from the same batch (same casting series) then it is my understanding that the "this end up or down" would be the same for either side

3) Planning to make these spindles dark using black oxide solution, like my caliper bracket here ............Is that good shade for spindles?  Think it would be considering the dark gray residue I found from the oil quenching process. 

Would aim for somewhere between what you got on the coil springs and the caliper mounting bracket

Don't forget the machined surfaces and the test mark area

Most spindles I see on finished cars are a medium or lighter gray, like Eastwood Detail Gray.

worth a point or so deduction. This one looks like some brand of cast blast

[rockhouse66]

It looks like the other side spindle might have had a white paint mark?