Topic: Trying to figure out when to shoot the under coat

[Keithc8]

 Working on a 69 R-Code built 10 of 68 at Dearborn. Trying to get right in my mind when to spray on the undercoat in the rear fender wells. Does this go on before the painting of the body so it gets the color of the car over sprayed on to it. Red Oxide the complete car, then seam sealers and sound deadner[undercoat} of the tunnel, rear fender wells and some in the front spring area. Paint the engine compartment black with the overspray onto the sides and some into the tunnel area. then paint the car with the doors on getting the over spray on the sound deadner in the rear wheel wells and on the inner fenders leaving red oxid showing in the shock tower area. Just rying to get it right.

Thanks, Keith 

[cobrajetchris]

I am currently restoring a 69 R code Mach 1 built at DEARBORN on 10/10/68. My undercarriage was not red oxide but a metallic blue color of sorts and I have several digital photos to prove that. The coverage of the so called slop paint was pretty good on my car and this color was painted before any undercoat or engine compartment black out as there was some blue areas showing on the outside of the shock towers behind the springs and on the underside of the front frame rails were the blackout spray did not cover. There was body color (silver jade) overspray on the body where the edges of the outer panels were sprayed such as rockers, wheelhouses etc.. On my car all the sound deadner was sprayed on late in the assembly process as some attached parts like fuel lines, a/c vac. canister, splash shields were covered with it. on my car the transmission tunnel had sound deadening but not as heavy as the front aprons or the rear wheelhouses. I also found some sound deadner on the front and rear floor pans were your feet go and some between the rear frame rails and qtr. drop off panels. There is a lot of variation on this and I see most people go with the red oxide but my car did not have any red oxide on the undercarriage however there was a small amount inside the cowl dash area where the firewall pad goes. If you have any photos of the car's undercarriage before you started restoring it that will be your best source of information, however if you don't I would say my car was built very close to yours and may be similar. The MACH 1's and GRANDE also had more of the sound deadner applied to the bottom as part of the package from what i have been told and my car reflects that. I will try to add some of the original pictures I took of my undercarriage, it was very rough but original and you can clearly see what it was. Hope this helps....

[cobrajetchris]

SORRY about the large photos, if you click on the paper clip the image will open up as a file and looks good.

[Sunlitgold68]

you can go to batchphoto.com and resize images if needed.

[Keithc8]

 I did not think that they did the slop paint till about Jan of 69. It is neat to see some of this stuff and the photos help. I took a lot of pictures of a 69 Shelby we did about 3 years ago. It had the grey slop paint but it was built about march of 69. We cleaned the bottom real good and did a match of that color. Someone had already messed with this car when we got it and could not get good information. Do you think the rear fender wells would have over spray on the undercoat? From what you are saying you think your car had the undercoat after the car was painted. I have seen the over spray on the frames rails and other places under the car like you said on another 69 Shelby I have.

Thanks, Keith

[J_Speegle]

I did not think that they did the slop paint till about Jan of 69

Have to disagree - have allot of samples before and after that date with batch color (Dearborn cars can be found back as far as 65 with it)   From reports and samples there appears to be a period of time at the beginning and near the end of the production year when they "switched" to red oxide - of course this is not the front frame rails and inner fenders (firewall forward) that we're discussion since it was typical to have those areas shot red oxide through out the production year

Do you think the rear fender wells would have over spray on the undercoat?

That is what I've continued to find (though the body color often wears off of the softer sound deadener)  allot of body color over the rear wheel wells (after sound deadener)  from 64-into the 70's.

Of course this goes against what was considered the standard all through the 80's & 90's but the rules have been corrected in the more recent years

[Keithc8]

 Thanks for the help and want to it right the first time around.

Thanks, Keith

[J_Speegle]

Keith looking at your original post I thought this might help -

If your car is a Grande or Mach then it would also get addition sound deadener applied to the floor pans after most of the car was assembled (minus driveline and exhaust it appears

1– After the unibody has been fully assembled (going to skip all of the body seam seal items) and the trunk lid, rear valance (hung by all the mounting screws but not pulled in at the bottom edge), quarter panel extensions (on but spaced away from the body) and doors attached. Seam sealer was applied to all panel edges such as roof lines, trunk and door openings, in the trunk around the wheel wells, bumper brackets, taillight panel and around the top and front edge of the upper door hinge on each side.
   
Next sound deadener was applied to the interior side of the rear quarter panels, trunk seams, along the seams in the front fender wells and rear wheel wells as well as some interior locations.

2- Exterior body was primed first it appears, with a red oxide primer sealer then a light gray surfacer.

3- Undercarriage primer and/or batch combination was applied next. Red oxide from the firewall forward (frame, inner fenders panels and the exterior surface of the shock towers was next applied. If both areas were shot with red oxide it is not unusual to find two different tints of the product on a car.

4- Some seams and the inner seat belt reinforcements where chalked next. The quarter or floor drops and the seat belt points were applied with a brush or pushed out of a gun then smeared with a brush or thinner dipped rag. These seams are noted in the pages to follow,

5– Interior color is applied next to the A pillars, area around the defroster and radio speaker hole and the interior of the doors.  Following this areas of the interior were blacked out depending on body type

6- Exterior color was applied with some over spray flowing onto the undercarriage. The further a part of the pan hung down the more overspray it received. Can be a little or allot but never the whole floor pan. In the rear wheel wells the area received a nice coat of paint in most cases and over spray/ nice coat often found its way onto the exposed rear frame rail  that are visible from the wheel well.

In the front wheelwells the body color typically extended onto the firewall section and the rear inner fender panel, normally stopping short of the shock tower though on occasion did extend into it.

7– Next the engine compartment paint is applied. This was applied to all of the engine compartment up to the firewall pinch weld (above the pinch weld to the base of the windshield opening also was painted black depending on when the car was built and certain model types)

The face of the radiator support received a nice coat of engine compartment black and often the black extended to the forward inner fender panel or at least overspray from the radiator support is evident. None of the stops and starts of paint in the inner fender wells appear to be exact and are more a reflection of the worker and his effort that given moment.

8– Next the pinch weld was blacked out. The outer edge was a soft edge so many painted just back mask the line. The over spray from this application would again cover some of the undercarriage as it would naturally. Again the more part of the pan hung down the more paint/black out it received. The amount of overspray generally would be less the distance that the body color traveled as it was applied with less pressure

9– Once the front fenders and the car assembled (just short of adding tires and wheels) were installed, the front wheel wells were blackout with sound deadener (except for Shelby's typically this year). The application could be best describes as between a little or allot but normally included as least the front splash shield, inner fenders (before and after the shock tower), the firewall section and the rear splash shield. On some cars an addition pass with the application wand was made up over the top of the bottom of the fender.



Hope this helps - now back to work

[Keithc8]

 I would like to thank you for taking the time to type out that very descriptive procedure on how the cars were done from bare body to the complete paint. there are several steps there to get it right. You must have looked at a lot of cars and talked with some people that originally did this. It is interesting how some parts were on the car and how they were spaced out for the painting process.
 It would have been neat to have seen this all done back in the day or some videos on it which was not even thought of back then. Who would have thought that anyone would have cared. I am glad that some of you guys have studied this stuff this well and that you share it.
 I know a lot about the engines but not so much about the cars.

Thanks, Keith Craft

[bryancobb]

Actually there is one video THAT I KNOW OF.  Martha and the Vandellas did a video of theit hit song Nowhere to Run.

It contains a wealth of info on the Mustang assembly line, but it's only a snapshot of ONE day in ONE plant.

[J_Speegle]

I would like to thank you for taking the time to type out that very descriptive procedure on how the cars were done from bare body to the complete paint. there are several steps there to get it right. You must have looked at a lot of cars and talked with some people that originally did this. It is interesting how some parts were on the car and how they were spaced out for the painting process.

Thanks and yes I've spent allot of time looking at original cars, cutting and sanding through layers of paint and deadener as well as talking to workers from the plants.  We continue to discover (we do have three plants and tens of production ) new things and there are always those cars that were just built differently for some reason.