Topic: 65 GT350r

[yellow66]

HI i am building an exact copy gt350r to race here in the UK, my research so far has given me 90% of what i need but the some  fine details are missing i.e. Did they keep the fibreglass rear panels inside. Were they all matt black inside and in the trunk. How wide was the axle. Some records say electric twin fuel pumps but all the images i find show mechanical fuel pumps fitted. Did they strengthen the body/chassis in any way. I appreciate any help.   

[Bob Gaines]

HI i am building an exact copy gt350r to race here in the UK, my research so far has given me 90% of what i need but the some  fine details are missing i.e. Did they keep the fibreglass rear panels inside. Were they all matt black inside and in the trunk. How wide was the axle. Some records say electric twin fuel pumps but all the images I find show mechanical fuel pumps fitted. Did they strengthen the body/chassis in any way. I appreciate any help.

I know this is not what you want to hear but you had varieties on the details in the series of GT350R cars built. Some were close in detail with each other but with a race car each time they built another they tried to improve and changed things a little. Only way to get a exact 65GT350 R is to pick a particular VIN car decide what window in time you were going for and build it to that . On most actively raced cars they didn't stay the same for long from when they were first built but evolved each racing season . Some kept the panels and tire tray in the rear and some didn't . Initially the scrutineers required them and after a while once the car was accepted as a 2 seater sports car (reason for rear seat delete) they didn't fuss if they weren't there. Quick access to the override mounts was one reason they were sometimes left out. Most were sprayed matt black on the inside and trunk but probably not all. They were supposed to have a stock axle . They fudged on the bodywork to get  more tire clearance . They would run a mechanical fuelpump or tandem electric fuel pumps or a combination of both. It all depends on which car and which window in time.

[yellow66]

thanks, that's a great help, and would explain a lot of why I cant get an exact handle on them, it also allows me to fudge the scrutineers here in some way, because they will be unable to say no to the better tweeks that Shelby did, you said "to get to the override bars" in what way? thanks again jon

[J_Speegle]

Might want to pick a particular car and build a copy of that car if that is what your going for - or a particular car at a specific historical moment - a particular race

Just a thought

[Bob Gaines]

thanks, that's a great help, and would explain a lot of why I cant get an exact handle on them, it also allows me to fudge the scrutineers here in some way, because they will be unable to say no to the better tweeks that Shelby did, you said "to get to the override bars" in what way? thanks again jon

The override bar bracket sometimes break loose in hard use  from the floor and a repair requires access to that area.

[yellow66]

to anyones knowledge did any of the 350R cars either get the rear bars converted to underride bars or have both as i find very few detailed images of these cars   

[J_Speegle]

to anyones knowledge did any of the 350R cars either get the rear bars converted to underride bars or have both as i find very few detailed images of these cars   

Not aware of any - might try asking over on the SAAC sit. A number of guys over there focus just on the R models since they are very much a different breed from the street cars and some have been following and documenting them since they were new in 65

http://saacforum.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=bad2bee4a20c76cbaa449541b8264e02&

[Bob Gaines]

to anyones knowledge did any of the 350R cars either get the rear bars converted to underride bars or have both as i find very few detailed images of these cars   

The overrides are much more effective then the underide. The underides were cheaper and easier to install which is why SA went to them in 66. The underides were eliminated completely for the 67 model year. The reason the overides were discontinued was primarily cost involved with installation to a and to lessor extent the noise and elements they allowed in the passenger compartment on the street version. I am not aware of both being used together on a competitive R model.

[rockhouse66]

A number of guys over there focus just on the R models since they are very much a different breed from the street cars and some have been following and documenting them since they were new in 65

Jeff - you are certainly right they are a different breed.  I am also assisting with the build of an R Model clone and, frankly, the info that is out there seems to be very sparse, even on the SAAC Forum.  Maybe because these few (rare/expensive) cars are currently pretty inaccessible, and maybe also because the details are a moving target so there isn't just one "right" and "wrong".  I have been seeking help with the correct R Model radiator mounting details, including through the SAAC Forum, without success.

[Bob Gaines]

Jeff - you are certainly right they are a different breed.  I am also assisting with the build of an R Model clone and, frankly, the info that is out there seems to be very sparse, even on the SAAC Forum.  Maybe because these few (rare/expensive) cars are currently pretty inaccessible, and maybe also because the details are a moving target so there isn't just one "right" and "wrong".  I have been seeking help with the correct R Model radiator mounting details, including through the SAAC Forum, without success.

Combination of moving target and apprehension by those that know of providing too many unnecessary details for purposes of coming up with a better clone ,tribute, fake(in case of the underhanded), replica,  etc.  I know enough to be dangerous but not as much as others. To a greater extent you will find some questions about original Cobra details met with silence also when asking for purposes of cloning.

[J_Speegle]

Jeff - you are certainly right they are a different breed.  I am also assisting with the build of an R Model clone and, frankly, the info that is out there seems to be very sparse, even on the SAAC Forum.  Maybe because these few (rare/expensive) cars are currently pretty inaccessible, and maybe also because the details are a moving target so there isn't just one "right" and "wrong".  I have been seeking help with the correct R Model radiator mounting details, including through the SAAC Forum, without success.

Oh you should try and write judging rules designed to cover these and other competition cars

[rockhouse66]

Bob - I understand the concern about "aiding and abetting" or something like that when it comes to Shelby clones, but of all the Shelbys out there, I would think there is little chance you could clone an R-Model and get anyone to think it is real.  There were/are too few, and they are too well known for this to happen.  Sort of liking cloning the Super Snake and getting someone to buy it as the real deal.

[Bob Gaines]

Bob - I understand the concern about "aiding and abetting" or something like that when it comes to Shelby clones, but of all the Shelbys out there, I would think there is little chance you could clone an R-Model and get anyone to think it is real.  There were/are too few, and they are too well known for this to happen.  Sort of liking cloning the Super Snake and getting someone to buy it as the real deal.week .

What about rebody of a R model .   . Seen a couple of those that but for lack of a few details could they be told from a non rebody. The owners certainly did their best to cover it up . The fakes are just one facet that you are fixating on . I also mentioned clone ,tribute replica or whatever the most popular phrase is for the week.   If you look at all of the multitude of information I have given out on these cars over the years on the SAAC forum it would be hard to say I am not helping with information on these cars that can be used for original cars or clones . I have many times helped people building these non original cars.  I know many others that will not help at all. You are missing the point if you think it is just about the dishonest trying to fake a car to deceive for profit. I do not think that there is any good reason for the need of some of the extreme details on a non original 65 GT350 or GT350 R . This opinion is shared by others and may or may not be why you are meeting some resistance to a few of your inquiries. You haven't done this but I have seen others use the tactic of trying to embarrass or "guilt" their way to information from knowledgable people . I am glad to see you haven't stooped that low. I know for me it has the opposite intended effect. Probably others too.  For the people who have the original cars do you think they want to see a bunch of exact copies out running around? Even though you can say it is flattery the multitudes of copies has a effect of diminishing the rarity and perceived value of the original . If you don't believe me then you are welcome to your opinion but my opinion is shared by many who own the originals and not copies.   I know of one owner who got very urked recently because someone thought his car was a replica since you see so many. If you don't understand that then I don't know how better to explain the situation. As a concours judge there are original details that I feel are better discussed privately or not at all . This is just my opinion others have theirs . 

[J_Speegle]

.............. As a concours judge there are original details that I feel are better discussed privately or not at all . .......

+1 on that point and others. Rebody and air cars are a continuing issue in the hobby. Often many don't realize the ripples created by just a little info can have in the hobby and such. Most would rather be overly cautious rather than feel regret later by exposing too much.

[yellow66]

Oh dear looks like I touched sensitive spot in my question, as I have to build this car to as was in 65 as the rules dictate I have to be sure of the correctness of the finished car and as it is a huge investment for a person (not a wealthy one at that) one can't afford mistakes so it's important that I get it right so with knowledge from people who know the facts it's a great help many thanks to those that have sent some info any more would be greatly appreciated . it's also difficult for me here in the UK to get  parts and info