Author Topic: 65 front suspension parts for PS V8  (Read 4180 times)

Offline Chris

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65 front suspension parts for PS V8
« on: December 30, 2013, 05:19:30 PM »
I'm replacing my front suspension as it squeeks constantly, even after greasing, and most of the parts have been replaced at some point with reproduction parts with incorrect zerk fittings.

From what I can see, there are no front suspension "kits" carried by any of the usual suppliers that is OEM-based, meaning correct forging w/o zerk fittings/holes. Does anyone know if there is a correct kit available and I'm just missing finding it? I've checked NPD and VCM, looks like you have to piece a kit together.

The parts I'm looking to order to get a non-squeeking front end are:

- Rivet-based Upper and lower control arms (with ball joints already installed)
- Inner and outer tie rods
- Sway bar insulators
- Sway bar end link kit
- Idler arm with bushing
- Front shocks

From the NPD catalog, correct upper and lower control arms are available as well as inner and outer tie rods. The Idler arm looks to have a hole for a zerk fitting though. What parts had zerk fittings? I think it was just the upper control arms.

Thanks.
64 1/2 Poppy Red Convertible, 260V8 auto, 19 June 64

Offline suskeenwiske

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Re: 65 front suspension parts for PS V8
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2013, 09:59:40 PM »
I'm not aware of anyone who has kits but you may want to check with K.A.R www.karmustang.com, they have put together some other kits, maybe they can help you with this one.

Ray
Ray
1965 Dearborn Coupe
6 Cylinder, AT, PB, PS, AC
Est. Build 23A

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 65 front suspension parts for PS V8
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2013, 03:03:36 AM »
I'm not aware of anyone who has kits but you may want to check with K.A.R www.karmustang.com, they have put together some other kits, maybe they can help you with this one.

Looked through what they were offering and didn't see any concours appropriate suspension kits or individual pieces other than some of the AMK bolts and rubber pieces


Most of it was the typical reproduction stuff - dichromate sway bar brackets, wrong rivets, shocks shaped differently and painted blue,  zert fittings on everything, tie rods and ends not shaped correct ....
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline 67gta289

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Re: 65 front suspension parts for PS V8
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2013, 07:33:36 AM »
Chris,

IMO this is one of the more challenging areas of concours restoration.  Apparently Ford wanted to advertise a low maintenance vehicle, and determined that sealed joints that did not require periodic greasing was something they could use in advertising as a benefit.  As to your specific question regarding what parts, if any, had zerk fittings, I'll say "none" and let others chime in and provide any corrections.  This includes drive shaft universal joints as well.

However, the Ford service parts, at least everything I've seen from 1975 on, had zerk fittings.  That is why you will see in many posts here statements that the Ford NOS parts are not "correct".  When you expand to non-Ford parts (Moog and others), zerk fittings were the norm.

For the ball joints, I have seen some original looking ones that appear to have a very small hex head plug that could be removed to add grease, but I'm not certain that these were indeed assembly line correct.

As Jeff mentioned reproduction upper and lower control arms usually have issues with rivet style.  Jacking tabs and dust boots are generally problematic also.

The conclusion of many is that the only way to go here is to find good originals and restore them.  Decent looking replacement boots are available.  There are some services offered by some, but it is not cheap.   

Of course some will say that it is foolish to drive a vehicle with used suspect tie rods, for example.  As always the choice is yours.

Unfortunately there is no easy answer.
John
67 289 GTA Dec 20 1966 San Jose
7R02C156xxx
MCA 74660

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: 65 front suspension parts for PS V8
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2013, 10:41:04 AM »
Chris,

IMO this is one of the more challenging areas of concours restoration.  Apparently Ford wanted to advertise a low maintenance vehicle, and determined that sealed joints that did not require periodic greasing was something they could use in advertising as a benefit.  As to your specific question regarding what parts, if any, had zerk fittings, I'll say "none" and let others chime in and provide any corrections.  This includes drive shaft universal joints as well.

However, the Ford service parts, at least everything I've seen from 1975 on, had zerk fittings.  That is why you will see in many posts here statements that the Ford NOS parts are not "correct".  When you expand to non-Ford parts (Moog and others), zerk fittings were the norm.

For the ball joints, I have seen some original looking ones that appear to have a very small hex head plug that could be removed to add grease, but I'm not certain that these were indeed assembly line correct.

As Jeff mentioned reproduction upper and lower control arms usually have issues with rivet style.  Jacking tabs and dust boots are generally problematic also.

The conclusion of many is that the only way to go here is to find good originals and restore them.  Decent looking replacement boots are available.  There are some services offered by some, but it is not cheap.   

Of course some will say that it is foolish to drive a vehicle with used suspect tie rods, for example.  As always the choice is yours.

Unfortunately there is no easy answer.
Besides the fact that the tie rods are typically hardy which is one of the reasons so many survive ,it is easy to tell if worn when off of the car . Used tie rod should be good and tight with no slop what so ever when moving shaft.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline Chris

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Re: 65 front suspension parts for PS V8
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2013, 10:47:02 AM »
Here are the parts I was looking at buying, I think they are the best option outside of going NOS:

- Lower Control Arm: Scott Drake, Mustang LOWER CONTROL ARM, REPLACEMENT, OE STYLE RIVETED BALL JOINT, JACK PLATES INSTALLED, LOW FRICTION BALL JOINT

http://www.npdlink.com/store/products/mustang_lower_control_arm_replacement_oe_style-148515-2804.html

- Upper Control Arm: Scott Drake, Painted black and natural steel gray, ready to install. Riveted ball joint as original.

http://www.cjponyparts.com/scott-drake-upper-control-arm-assembly-premium-black-gray-1965-1966/p/UCA3/

- Tie Rod, outer LH: Mustang TIE ROD, OUTER, LH, CONCOURS CORRECT FORGINGS, BOOTS AND NO ZERK COVER PLATE

http://www.npdlink.com/store/products/mustang_tie_rod_outer_lh-169696-370.html

- Tie rod, outer RH: Mustang TIE ROD, OUTER, CONCOURS CORRECT FORGINGS, BOOTS AND NO ZERK COVER PLATE

http://www.npdlink.com/store/products/mustang_tie_rod_outer_concours_correct_forgings-169697-370.html

- Tie rod, inner LH: http://www.npdlink.com/store/products/mustang_tie_rod_inner_lh-169698-370.html

- Tie rod inner RH: http://www.npdlink.com/store/products/mustang_tie_rod_inner_concours_correct_forgings-169699-370.html

- Idler arm: Can't find a reproduction without a zerk fitting hole, http://www.cjponyparts.com/idler-arm-v8-1964-1966/p/H18666/

- Front shock: http://www.npdlink.com/store/products/mustang_shock_absorber_front_made_by_gabriel-144730-355.html
« Last Edit: December 31, 2013, 10:50:02 AM by Chris »
64 1/2 Poppy Red Convertible, 260V8 auto, 19 June 64

Offline Chris

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Re: 65 front suspension parts for PS V8
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2013, 05:10:21 PM »
Found this idler arm at the Scott Drake site, looks like there is no zerk fitting: http://www.drakeautomotivegroup.com/Store/Product/C5ZZ-3352-BR.aspx?wid=141

It's funny how some Scott Drake parts are carried by suppliers and others are not. There are the lower control arms at NPD but if you want the upper control arms by Scott drake, you have to go to another supplier like CJ Pony. The idler arm isn't carried by either. The tie rods at NPD must be Moog as the V8 versions on the Scott Drake site all have zerk fittings.

One more thing, should I rebuild the steering box while I'm at it? My power steerring or something makes a very loud screeching sound when it's turned hard and all the way to the right. Not sure what is causing that as my fluid level is fine and the belt is tight, was not sure if the steering box could cause that noise.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2013, 05:24:56 PM by Chris »
64 1/2 Poppy Red Convertible, 260V8 auto, 19 June 64

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: 65 front suspension parts for PS V8
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2013, 05:31:58 PM »
Found this idler arm at the Scott Drake site, looks like there is no zerk fitting: http://www.drakeautomotivegroup.com/Store/Product/C5ZZ-3352-BR.aspx?wid=141

It's funny how some Scott Drake parts are carried by suppliers and others are not. There are the lower control arms at NPD but if you want the upper control arms by Scott drake, you have to go to another supplier like CJ Pony. The idler arm isn't carried by either. The tie rods at NPD must be Moog as the V8 versions on the Scott Drake site all have zerk fittings.

One more thing, should I rebuild the steering box while I'm at it? My power steerring or something makes a very loud screeching sound when it's turned hard and all the way to the right. Not sure what is causing that as my fluid level is fine and the belt is tight, was not sure if the steering box could cause that noise.
Yes, rebuild your steering box FOR SURE. You will not believe the differance in steering it will make. The screeching noise you hear is coming from your powersteering system not the steering box.
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline rocket289k

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Re: 65 front suspension parts for PS V8
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2013, 07:46:12 PM »
Yes, rebuild your steering box FOR SURE. You will not believe the differance in steering it will make. The screeching noise you hear is coming from your powersteering system not the steering box.

+1 regarding rebuilding your steering box.  You can rebuild the entire suspension and it can still not feel tight if you don't also rebuild the steering box. 
« Last Edit: January 01, 2014, 04:57:17 PM by rocket289k »
1965 "A" Code 289 Mustang GT - Planned Build Date July 19 / Bucked July 21 Metuchen / Factory AC & PS / C4 Auto / 3.00 open

Offline suskeenwiske

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Re: 65 front suspension parts for PS V8
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2013, 08:25:20 PM »
Is rebuilding the Steering Box a DIY project and if so, are any special tools needed?

Thanks

Ray
Ray
1965 Dearborn Coupe
6 Cylinder, AT, PB, PS, AC
Est. Build 23A

Offline carlite65

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Re: 65 front suspension parts for PS V8
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2013, 08:28:19 PM »
well yes & no, depending on your skill levels. i usually send mine to roger rode in galion ohio. excellent work & quick turnaround.
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Online CharlesTurner

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Re: 65 front suspension parts for PS V8
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2013, 10:53:31 PM »
They can be rebuilt DIY, but if there is excessive wear on the shaft, you may need to get a pro to take a look at it.  The only difficult part otherwise is using an inch-lb torque wrench to set clearance. 
Charles Turner - MCA/SAAC Judge
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Offline Chris

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Re: 65 front suspension parts for PS V8
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2014, 07:06:16 PM »
I was hoping to get a read on the reproduction parts I listed from NPD and CJ Pony. The NPD parts say concours correct. I take this to mean in line with MCA rules? How close to original are these parts?

Thanks.
64 1/2 Poppy Red Convertible, 260V8 auto, 19 June 64

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 65 front suspension parts for PS V8
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2014, 08:38:28 PM »
.........................The NPD parts say concours correct. I take this to mean in line with MCA rules? .........

It means nothing IMHO  other than its one persons opinion that its like original.  Does not mean that it would not receive any deductions if used on a restored show car.  Sure plenty of members here can offer a "concours corrrect" reproduction that lacks in one or more ways original style details.
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline Chris

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Re: 65 front suspension parts for PS V8
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2014, 09:46:35 PM »
Thanks Jeff. I've used nothing but Service replacement or NOS on the car so far, so I guess my hunt will continue for the suspension and steering parts. Tracking one inner and outer 65 tie rod for V8 now on eBay...only originals I've found so far.

Chris
64 1/2 Poppy Red Convertible, 260V8 auto, 19 June 64