Topic: 67 San Jose Thermactor S-code air cleaner decal

[pagoda69]

I recently purchased a 67 S-code, San Jose built GTA convertible. The previous owner performed a remarkable restoration and this GTA received two MCA Concours Gold Awards in the early 2000's. The 390 decal on the air cleaner is blue and black, not orange and black/white. Is the blue decal acceptable? I could not find a deduction in the judging sheets. The build date is 11/03/1966.

[J_Speegle]

First welcome to the site

Yes remember the car fairly well - locally restored and it was unusual for a west coast car to be shown so many times at MCA considering the travel distances. Believe there were many more than two Golds at MCA if I remember correctly - remember a number between 8 and 15 times the car was shown. John H who built the car would know.Believe the only silver it got was the first time out with Charles and Pete. Not an easy pair to get for a maiden show I never judged the car at a show though I did work as a consultant and visited the car a number of times during the restoration and after to prep for the outings. Owner and builder were instructed not to mention my name being involved with the car (wanted a clean level playing field - both ways until after the 6th trophy.

Your question is two fold  I believe. As far as the decal being accepted by the current judges at MCA I can't speak to since I've not judged with in that class for over a decade but sure Marty will add his insight to how it might be looked at a show currently

As a note we did have conversations during the time period when the car was being shown.  As far as being original or correct IMHO yes and the reason it is as follows. From what I've seen and owned on original cars apparently Ford had some challenges with the 390 Thermactor cars in the Mustangs since there was a clearance problem with hood and the larger car air cleaners and their attempt not to make specific (sure it saved money) new air cleaners for this application to satisfy California emissions standard (closed element). The T-Bird air cleaner provided the clearance needed, the flow and size needed (with the baffling and all) for the 390. The blue decal is the same one used on the T Bird  that year though the lids on the T bird were painted not chromed. Unfortunately the air cleaner decals don't hold up well over time - especially on chrome lids)  so we don't have a ton of examples to pull from. Not saying all Thermactor 67 390's built at San Jose had the blue decal just IMHO some did
 

Here is a picture of an air cleaner that was on my 67 GT390 fastback (just for one example) I had in the 80's

[Paperback Writer]

Welcome pagoda69,

Thought you might enjoy this - here's a photo of your car (at least I assume this is the same car) from the Bellevue, Washington Mustang Roundup on July 23, 2000...

[pagoda69]

Thank you for the info. I was aware that the blue decal was used on the 67 T-Birds. I found several photos of that decal on painted air cleaner covers. Now I know why it was used. When I was an MCA member in the 1990's I spoke to you a few times. You were very helpful then too. I was very happy to see this 67 GTA become available. It's a beauty.
Thanks again

[pagoda69]

Great photo. Thank you

[ruppstang]

I might be inclined to deduct for it with out some supporting documentation. It really does not make sense that if the lid was blue on a Thunderbird and it had to be chrome plated for the Mustang that they would have not put a Mustang decal on as well. If they had merely used the blue lid assembly I could see the blue decal being used.   

[pagoda69]

If the blue decal were not acceptable, which orange 390 decal is acceptable on the GT? I have seen both the "390 4V" and the "390 High Performance" decals on 67 -68 GT's.
I was always inclined to believe that the "390 High Performance" is correct on GT's.

[gtamustang]

Being involved with the MCA 67-68 classes for so long I recommend that you stick with the blue decal. The smog emissions 390 did use the snorkel type air cleaner lid and Jeff was able to provide good documentation to show that the blue 390 decal was correct. When Charles and I judged it for its first MCA National, we did not take off for the decal as we were comfortable with the documentation that Jeff provided to us.

I worked with the previous owner (don't remember his name but he own an elevator business) over the years helping him address the minor deficiencies the restoration showed. The car is a top level restored and maintained 67 convertible. The most you might loose for the decal is 1 point and that would be only from the judges that are not as experienced or knowledgeable.

Regards,
Pete Morgan

[J_Speegle]

I might be inclined to deduct for it with out some supporting documentation. It really does not make sense that if the lid was blue on a Thunderbird and it had to be chrome plated for the Mustang that they would have not put a Mustang decal on as well........................

What sort of documentation (number of original examples or printed Ford letters?) would enough for you at a show?  Knowing that the Ford printed stuff has its share of mistakes and plans that were not carried out that might lead us to cars being restored as Ford had wanted to (at least at one point) rather than the way they were.

Just asking so that the owner gets a full understanding of the standard and expectations of the judging today

[ruppstang]

Guys I am saying that with out the above knowledge that I now have I would deduct with out documentation from the owner. Who knows who may judge this car in the future, they may have none of the above information. Going off the path with out documentation is a slippery slope. This case at least with me there is reasonable doubt and the credit goes to the car, no deduction.
If it were me I would keep some of this information with the car for the next judge that questions it.
Marty 

[pagoda69]

Good advice from everyone. Marty, great idea. I will print out this info with Jeff's photo of the blue decal on the CA air cleaner and keep it with the car's documentation, which is already extensive.
Thanks guys,
John

[67gta289]

Regarding "extensive" documentation, at a national MCA show, help the judges out.  Don't expect that they would have time to (1) thumb through reams of information, (2) retain that information, and (3) judge appropriately.  Judges are asked to introduce themselves to the owner and ask if there is something "special or unique" about your car.  This is where I would bring up the blue sticker, with the documentation pertaining to that, and any other similar issue (such as some dealer installed oddity - tripower, dual exhaust, traction bars, etc. with that paperwork also).  Cut the extensive documents to a few key items (or only one if this is all there is) and let the judging commence.  If there is time after the judging, don't be surprised if someone comes back to look through the other documents (for enjoyment or education, not for judging).

[J_Speegle]

Guys I am saying ....................................................................If it were me I would keep some of this information with the car for the next judge that questions it.

Didn't want to pick on anyone in particular but realized that Marty had judged with that group in the past and attends all of the MCA national events annually. No picking on anyone Overall thought this was a good opportunity to show the community how "new" information can be introduced, discussed and possibly a path chosen for an owner.

Hate to see the owner have to carry two air cleaner lids to the show but that is allot better than two sets of tires    for example.

At least I see this fairly often and the forums is a good place IMHO to get the discussion going before show day. I'm often asked - which air filter, spark plug wires, decal, ... on and on by participants especially on mid year cars. Have one ex head judge who at times has asked about upward of 8 items on one car he showed.

Bottom line - agreed. The owner needs to provide what they used to make the choices they did. Pagoda69 its likely (when I've taught the MCA judges over the years to expect it   best to introduce the documentation once the judging team finishes their introduction before the judging part takes place. Offer something like this " Before you get started can I offer some information about that air cleaner decal I'm sure you've noticed?"  You should get a yes or a we're already comfortable with it (or something like that). Simply offer what you've uncovered and at that point discuss among themselves and move on.

.............It really does not make sense that if the lid was blue on a Thunderbird and it had to be chrome plated for the Mustang that they would have not put a Mustang decal on as well. If they had merely used the blue lid assembly I could see the blue decal being used.   

Don't think that was a Mustang decal just one that they shared with other Ford lines but it doesn't really matter for this discussion

This might make this a little easier   Since you seemed to suggest that it would be easier to understand if the T bird and Mustang shared the same air cleaner and chrome lid I offer the following text from the Aug 67 (right after they stopped making the 67's)  MPC. Second line down

As you can see according to the documentation that the snorkel style air cleaner was shared by both car lines and using both a Mustang and T Bird part engineering number (C7ZF-9600-K & J plus  C7SF-9600-A) for the same part. Apparently there were two different versions of the Mustang one for some reason - recall a internal baffle issue in one of the Tech Service Bulletins that was again shown in a Shop Tips



Hope this helps


Really don't want to get into the whole GT /non-GT application. We had a very long "discussion" back in the 90's on a number of sites - really don't understand why Calif BAR (or what ever they were called in the 60's) would allow a trim option to make a difference in emission equipment. In any case, if some one at San Jose messed up and put them on a good number of cars (given the number of original cars with that air cleaner) or if it was just a supply thing it is documented that GT's were delivered that way.  Opps said I didn't want to go there - need to stay on the decal issue

[rodster]

Just curious, would a 67 non-GT S-code get a air cleaner decal too?

[J_Speegle]

Just curious, would a 67 non-GT S-code get a air cleaner decal too?

They would all get a decal - the question would be which decal Will look for a couple of original examples. Guessing your looking for the 49 state examples