Topic: 65 GT Identification

[65fastbk]

Hi,

I just purchased a 65 k code GT and wanted to verify if it was a factory GT.  The car is a San Jose car with a build date of July 12.  Im trying to verify if its a "true" gt.  Ive looked looked behind the rear seat and it has the reinforcement plates (posted earlier last week). I put my fingers in small holes in the frame rails and feel a plate in there.  It has k/h disk brakes and GT 5 dial cluster.  Is there a sure way to tell?

Thanks!!

[J_Speegle]

Verifying (or at least making yourself feel comfortable with it being a GT) will be a combination of what you find and what you don't. And its going to be a little more difficult with an original K code since many of the features are shared between the K code without the GT package and with the GT package. So many of the non GT ones have been converted to GT status over the year is rare to see a non GT at shows now a days.

You didn't share if the cars body style so you may need to check for signs of rocker panel molding or the quarter panel trim mounting holes. You'll check for the correct disk brake hardware and mounting as well as the parts.

Checking how the radiator support holes were made as well as the dash switch. Then follow that up with the wiring between the two and its routing.

Rear valance original to the car? Opening in the dash for the gauge cluster (how its shaped and formed)  are a couple of other things.

Are the fr9ont fenders original to the car if so check for the emblem mounting hole location and evidence of other holes.

That should be a start - been a long time since I inspected an early car the "is it a original GT"  things I'm sure I missed something and others will chime in  

[mjd 65]

As Jeff pointed out, trying to determine whether a K code is a factory GT is difficult, because many of the features we look for on GTs (like dual exhaust and special handling package) will also be present on a non-GT K-code.  Having said that, one important feature to look for on a 65 is the " half moon" cutout under the speedometer, which is difficult to fake.  Of course, this cutout is also present on a pony interior car, but if you find on a non- pony 65, it is a good indicator of a factory GT.

[jwc66k]

It's a lot easier to prove a car is not a GT than prove that one is. The cutout on the instrument panel is a good test, and another is the wiring. Depending on how much detail a "forger" is willing to attend to, take a look at the fog lamp wiring both under the dash and in the engine compartment to verify fog lamps. The fog lamp wiring is integral with both harnesses. The fog lamp wiring itself from the lamp to the feed harness and the ground is enclosed in a gray plastic sheath, sort of like shrink tubing that has not been heated. Also the ammeter wiring behind the instrument panel. If the "forger" went to that much trouble then accept that it's a GT. Keep in mind that original fenders have the GT badge and MUSTANG mounting holes only, but replacement fenders are a possibility. A hardtop and convertible will not have the chrome "scoop" trim and no scoop mounting holes filled with Bondo (no scoops on any fastbacks). No rocker molding either. There's probably more.
Jim

[65fastbk]

Verifying (or at least making yourself feel comfortable with it being a GT) will be a combination of what you find and what you don't. And its going to be a little more difficult with an original K code since many of the features are shared between the K code without the GT package and with the GT package. So many of the non GT ones have been converted to GT status over the year is rare to see a non GT at shows now a days.

You didn't share if the cars body style so you may need to check for signs of rocker panel molding or the quarter panel trim mounting holes. You'll check for the correct disk brake hardware and mounting as well as the parts.

Checking how the radiator support holes were made as well as the dash switch. Then follow that up with the wiring between the two and its routing.

Rear valance original to the car? Opening in the dash for the gauge cluster (how its shaped and formed)  are a couple of other things.

Are the fr9ont fenders original to the car if so check for the emblem mounting hole location and evidence of other holes.

That should be a start - been a long time since I inspected an early car the "is it a original GT"  things I'm sure I missed something and others will chime in

Thanks! It's a fastback with standard interior. I looked at the rockers and fenders and did not see holes for rockers or other moldings.

The radiator support appears to be original, is there a date stamp somewhere I can confirm it by? I'm not sure if the holes looked stamped or drilled, I have attached a pic!

The brake lights turn on when I turned the fog lights on and the fog light wiring is in the same bundle as the main harness.

Is there a date code that is visable on the rear valance? I removed the rally pac, and looked under and saw a curve but, I didn't think I would be able to see it without removing the cluster? Everything looked like it was seated well besides the bottom? I will attach a pic.  Thanks again!

[65fastbk]

It's a lot easier to prove a car is not a GT than prove that one is. The cutout on the instrument panel is a good test, and another is the wiring. Depending on how much detail a "forger" is willing to attend to, take a look at the fog lamp wiring both under the dash and in the engine compartment to verify fog lamps. The fog lamp wiring is integral with both harnesses. The fog lamp wiring itself from the lamp to the feed harness and the ground is enclosed in a gray plastic sheath, sort of like shrink tubing that has not been heated. Also the ammeter wiring behind the instrument panel. If the "forger" went to that much trouble then accept that it's a GT. Keep in mind that original fenders have the GT badge and MUSTANG mounting holes only, but replacement fenders are a possibility. A hardtop and convertible will not have the chrome "scoop" trim and no scoop mounting holes filled with Bondo (no scoops on any fastbacks). No rocker molding either. There's probably more.
Jim

Thanks Jim, I think I will have to fully take out the cluster....The wiring for the rally pac seemed tight, so I just moved it to the side, then I saw I can see curve without removing the cluster...I looked at the pic compared to others on the net and mine looks so big?

[rocket289k]

Hi there,

Given it's a '65 there are a couple of other things you can take a look for. 

Backup Lights

If the car is factory GT it very likely does not have backup lamps (as backup lamps were an option in '65 - not federally mandated until '66).  As a result, the rear taillight harness would be unique to the car (it doesn't have wiring for the backup lights).  My '65 GT Coupe has no backup lamps and this unique harness (coupe and convertible shared this harness if the car was not equipped with backup lights).  This harness wasn't available as a reproduction until last year.  Virginia Classic Mustangs is selling it.  The 65 Fastback Tail Light Wiring Harness without Back Up Lights would be unique to all '65 Shelbys and non backup light equipped '65 Mustang fastbacks.  If you have what appears to be an original rear valance with only the dual exhaust cutouts (and no back-up lamps) that's another item that would add credence to the fact you have a factory GT. 

Unique to '65 Fog Light Switch

Another very big piece of evidence for a factory '65 GT is the fog light switch (it is unique to '65).  It has 1 male 2 female connectors and the wiring is integrated into the main harness.


The attached is a good reference for identifying a true factory GT for 65 and 66 Mustangs - http://www.kcode.net/GT65-66.htm

Regards,

Ron

[65fastbk]

Hi there,

Given it's a '65 there are a couple of other things you can take a look for. 

Backup Lights

If the car is factory GT it very likely does not have backup lamps (as backup lamps were an option in '65 - not federally mandated until '66).  As a result, the rear taillight harness would be unique to the car (it doesn't have wiring for the backup lights).  My '65 GT Coupe has no backup lamps and this unique harness (coupe and convertible shared this harness if the car was not equipped with backup lights).  This harness wasn't available as a reproduction until last year.  Virginia Classic Mustangs is selling it.  The 65 Fastback Tail Light Wiring Harness without Back Up Lights would be unique to all '65 Shelbys and non backup light equipped '65 Mustang fastbacks.  If you have what appears to be an original rear valance with only the dual exhaust cutouts (and no back-up lamps) that's another item that would add credence to the fact you have a factory GT. 

Unique to '65 Fog Light Switch

Another very big piece of evidence for a factory '65 GT is the fog light switch (it is unique to '65).  It has 1 male 2 female connectors and the wiring is integrated into the main harness.


The attached is a good reference for identifying a true factory GT for 65 and 66 Mustangs - http://www.kcode.net/GT65-66.htm

Regards,

Ron

Thanks Ron,

I will check that when I get home.  Is there anyway to see know if it a factory valance panel, I did look there and did not see any bolts for the bumper guards.  From the pics I posted above does that look correct for the foglight holes and dash cutout?

thx

[mjd 65]

Hi there,

Given it's a '65 there are a couple of other things you can take a look for. 

Backup Lights

If the car is factory GT it very likely does not have backup lamps (as backup lamps were an option in '65 - not federally mandated until '66).

I've never heard there was any restriction about ordering the GT option with the back up light option in 65.   I did a quick search through the factory literature and didn't see any prohibition about ordering the two options together.  Moreover, my personal experience is that back up lights became an increasingly common option later in the 65 model year, near the time the GT option was introduced.  By the time of the very late 65s, like my July 65 car,it is  rare to find a 65 without back up lights,suggesting Ford may have been preparing for the changeover to mandatory back up lights in 66. Anyway, I suggest the presence or absence of back up lights on a 65 doesn't have any bearing on whether the GT option was ordered, but I'd be interested to see if anyone had any definitive information on this point.