Topic: 67 San Jose Front Wheelwell Sound Deadener

[7R02A]

All,
I am new to this site and this is my first post.  I have a 67 fastback built at the San Jose plant in late 66.  I am working on reapplying the sound deadener in the front wheel area.  I have pictures that I took before I stripped the front but aprons, but the car sat outside without fenders and I belief a lot of the sound deadener had fallen off.  The pictures show very heavy application on the firewall areas and between the firewall and the shock tower.  None on the shock tower covers and very little on the apron between the shock towers and the radiator support.  It also appears that the sound deadener was applied in the shock tower area under the suspension (bottom only).  My understanding was that sound deadener was applied very last.  Everything was on the car except the wheels.  Did they apply sound deadener at two different points in the assembly process?Also appears that the brake lines and fuel lines did not have sound deadener, but I understand that it can fall off.  Does anyone have pictures of a car from this time and plant that I could reference?  Also, since I didn't have fenders, I need to know how much sound deadener to apply to the underside of the fender.  I have a searched this forum and found lot of references to sound deadener, but not for my year and plant.  Any pictures or advice would be appreciated.
Thanks,
John

[67gta289]

Welcome to the site, and thanks for searching.  I always search first and then ask questions if I don't get the answer in detail enough.  Here are some pics from a Dec 66 SJ.

This is an area for sure that is significantly different from plant to plant, with variations from year to year, and most likely from assembly line worker to worker.

On this car note that the vertical joints on each side of the shock tower are brushed.  Towards the top this is important to not get in the way of the metal coil spring cover.

How much is brushed over is a particular item that varies a lot.

The bottom of these shock towers, in the area that is somewhat like a "tray", was completely filled with a thick filler.  Some had flowed through the two holes towards the pass compt.  There was no primer (or surface rust) beneath it when I removed it.  Similar to the interior in front of the rear wheel well around the fastback drain tube.

[7R02A]

Thank you so much for the pictures.  It appears from your pictures that the rubber plugs, brake line brackets, and suspension must have been installed after sound deadener.  The steering box on the other hand appears to have been in place.  Do you know if their was a second application of sound deadener once the fenders were installed?  This would cover the splash shields and apply sound deadener to the underside of the fender.  Once again, thank you for the response.
John

[67gta289]

John, there is enough evidence that there was indeed a"second" application.

In addition to your comment about the first application being done before plugs, brackets, suspension that is a good interpretation of the pictures.  I can also add that for the stuff that was not on solid, as a flipped pieces off there was bare metal beneath, indicating to me that this was done after the unibody was together but before primer.  Certainly well before any mechanical components were installed.

I have read here that the second application was in the front wheel well area only, with fenders (and thus splash shields) on.  I don't know the extent of what mechanicals were in place, but would think most if not all would be.  I'm sure that others will offer additional insight. 

As far as the steering box bolts, I don't think that was installed before the first application.  Since the torque value was high, it would squish that goo out.  Also the pictures you see are after a light sand blasting that removed anything that was not stubborn.

[J_Speegle]

Thank you so much for the pictures.  It appears from your pictures that the rubber plugs, brake line brackets, and suspension must have been installed after sound deaden er.  The steering box on the other hand appears to have been in place.  Do you know if their was a second application of sound deaden er once the fenders were installed? ..............

No there wasn't a second application of sound deadener - just one. I can provide pictures of brackets, rubber plugs and suspension with sound deadener applied to them

Often the material did not stick (over 40 + years to the runner as well as other surfaces )

So one application after the complete car was assembled - minus wheels and tires, from a spot below the car in the front wheel wells

The amount and where is dictated by the specific worker though there was a bare minimum. And since there were only a couple of regular guys that did the job they typically fall into one of two patterns. Either the firewall section one pass behind the shock towers and another in front of the shock towers (minimum) or a heavy application where another pass was made over the splash shields and  under sides of the fenders all in one pass of the wand.

The amount of sound deadener does not correspond to where the car was sent (areas with more rain fall, gravel roads ....

Earlier thread

http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=968.msg4966#msg4966

[7R02A]

Jeff,  thank you for the reply.  I would love to see any pictures you may have.  I believe I am confussed.  If the sound deadener was applyed after everything is assymebled, then why did I and 67gta289 (according to his pictures) find sound deadener under the rubber plugs, brake line brackets and under the the upper control arms?  I spent days removing all of this sound deadner and I don't want to apply it incorrectly to have to remove it all again.   
Thanks,
John

[J_Speegle]

Jeff,  thank you for the reply.  I would love to see any pictures you may have.  I believe I am confussed.  If the sound deadener was applied after everything is assembled, then why did I and 67gta289 (according to his pictures) find sound deadener under the rubber plugs, brake line brackets and under the the upper control arms?  I spent days removing all of this sound deadner and I don't want to apply it incorrectly to have to remove it all again.   

What was found under the a arm and possibly under the rubber plugs may have just been seam sealer rather than sound deadener In the pictures below you will see where the line of seam sealer follows the line between the frame and inner fenders all the way below the upper a arm and continues again once out of that pocket.

Got plenty of pictures of that seam sealer (evidence on the other parts) being applied after bumper arms, fuel line clamps/brackets ...... so it may have been done at the same station as the sound deadener (depending on the applicator they may have been able to reach below the a arm) but just about everything was in place at that time.

BTW have plenty of pictures of shadows in the sound deadener and plugs laying flat against the sheet metal rather than on top of any sound deadener  But that might take us off thread a bit.   and muddy the water but I'll get past this next post and pictures before we chance that dog LOL

Took me a couple of hours to dig the pictures out and post them

 

[J_Speegle]

Often the sealer application can get confused with the sound deadener - especially in the years and applications where the spray sealant (with no brush over) was used.

Mid year 67 (approx 156xxx-164xxx) San Jose plant examples (Note- owners with cars from other periods and plants PLEASE do not copy these examples

The challenge is always that there is not one single answer and if every one copied one then we would end up with a bunch of cookie- cutter looking cars not truly representing how the cars were originally built so we'll need to accept that there was a range of possibilities and your choice (lacking specific historical evidence from your specific car) should fall into that range IMHO

Looking at examples from San Jose from November into Jan it was a period were workers were sealing the frame to inner fender panels, shock towers to frame and cowl/firewall section to the torque boxes, frame and inner fender panels seams with a thick application of sealer.  In a couple of examples a worker forgot to apply at the shock tower  to inner fender edge below the spring cover

Sound deadener was applied fairly lightly (when compared to other periods and plants)  to the inner fender panels before and after the shock towers. Most of the time never up to the level (approx)  of the spring covers or their mounting bolts

I've high lighted the areas covered since my larger and higher resolution pictures are a bit clearer than ones I can post here

The last picture showing the battery box area is from a slightly earlier period where the frame to inner seam was not applied as heavy but shows a typical small spot of sound deadener applied with is typical of much of 67 production for that area

BTW in the third picture you can make out a little of the sound deadener remains as a bridge between the surface and the plug - plug above the fuel line) at the 9 o'clock to 12 o'clock position

Hope this helps

 

[7R02A]

Jeff,
Thank you so much as these pictures are very helpful.  I think that it is amazing that you can narrow the workers techniques down to that close of a range.  My VIN is 159XXX.  I do have pictures if you would like to add to your collection.  Based on your pictures, the sound deadener I though had fell off, was basically not there to begin with.  The only other cars that I have to look at are all Dearborn and they have very heavy application all over everything.  Do you have any pictures of the undeside of the fenders?
Thanks again,
John

[67gta289]

Jeff - thanks for the clarity.  I can see that the seam sealer was applied very early in the build process, and we know that sound deadner was applied late - after fender in place.

I'm looking at the pic I posted called "driver side pass compt" which is behind the rear splash shield.  I was thinking that since this had seam sealer plus sound deadner, that some sound deadner might be applied toward the front also at the same time.

Or am I misinterpreting something?

[J_Speegle]

Jeff - thanks for the clarity.  I can see that the seam sealer was applied very early in the build process, and we know that sound deadner was applied late - after fender in place.

I'm looking at the pic I posted called "driver side pass compt" which is behind the rear splash shield.  I was thinking that since this had seam sealer plus sound deadner, that some sound deadener might be applied toward the front also at the same time.

I don't see any sound deadener in that picture only a couple of different types of seam sealer.

That area (what we see in that picture) was likely applied when the rest of the body (well most of it) was applied (trunk, interior ...) before paint and not like the rocker to floor seam seal (just an example) that was applied after.

There was some addition sealer applied over the body color in those door jambs to seal clips, rubber seals and such that passed through from the interior - sort of like the push plugs that held the firewall pad to the firewall