Topic: MCA Judge's Meeting - October 11, 2013 Dallas, TX

[TLea]

The obvious personality conflicts just reinforce my current feelings about MCA. Its not just about Tbred, its about the whole system. The arguement continues to be about judging the cars and that is not the (only) issue. Charles you are my friend but the word "perceived" is an illusion and not reality. There are real problems that occur outside of the real judging as to which cars make it and which dont. This is not just related to the recent fiasco but what i have observed for years.
I suppose my opinion isnt valid as I am not on Rick's "best of the best" list. By the way Rick, have you ever restored a T bred car?
Sorry if I come across cynical, its really not my nature. I also want to clarify that this is not directed at the T bred class as I previously stated. My issue has been at the head of the organization should be the ultimate responibility to say all this is under my watch and is my legacy. I had this conversation with him over 3 years ago when the positive judging community changes started going to negative.
I also want to support Marty in his efforts to try and change things. Irregardless of his T bred knowledge and qualifications he at least is making a focused effort to make things better rather than just going along with a broken system

[CharlesTurner]

Well, Tim, you know I try to stay in the middle ground and be reasonable about things.  Anyone involved in judging is volunteering their personal time and that is always worth something in my book.  There are only a couple of members that I would single out as being the root of most of the current problems, but they aren't participating in the discussion, so it's not worth mentioning their names. 

Something that bothers me about some of the comments on this thread are to the effect that if you don't show up to the judge's meeting, then you must not care, so don't complain.  We have to be very careful with this attitude.  There are many in the club that I respect and would very much like to see them at a judge's meeting, but it is not realistic to expect everyone to attend.  Throw in the fact that the meeting is on a Friday and too far to drive for most active judges and it's just not conducive to gaining valuable feedback.  The only reason that I can come up with as to why the meeting is on this date is due to the MCA BOD meeting being the following day at the same location.  This is yet another poor decision by those currently in charge. 

Last thing I will mention is that I have received absolutely no personal communication regarding the judge's meeting and what is going to be discussed.  I had to hear second-hand about some of the changes that will be discussed.  It all wreaks of secrecy and pushing agendas forward without proper buy-in.  I remember sending out information to all the judges I had e-mail addresses for when I was national head judge, informing them about the meeting and what was planned.  This was done via personal e-mail, the MCA website and also Mustang Times.  The only thing I ever saw come from the top about the 2013 meeting was in Mustang Times.  There is some registration form for the judge's meeting and regional director's summit, but I don't remember ever getting communication that this registration is required.  If I show up at the judge's meeting, will I be turned away because I didn't register?

[Laurie S.]

I've never heard of registration ever being required for a judges' meeting, and haven't heard anything about it this year.  I also wish the meeting weren't on Friday.  Because I have to attend the BOD meeting, that would mean me committing my time from Thursday through Sunday, so three nights of a hotel room, four days of my house-pet sitters, meals, and the plane ticket.  And, I would end up having to attend the Regional Directors Summit on Saturday.  Sorry, but one of those was enough for me.  If the judges' meeting were on Monday, I would have stayed over.

[mgmradio]

Tim,
  I agree with what you are saying , but the politics and melding have been going on at least as far back as when I became involved with judging. It did get better for a few years before the current administration took over , then it seams to have come back in spades. As a whole the judging system and accuracy of the rules and most of the judges improved greatly during that time. It's a shame that the current powers that be have so negatively impacted those improvements. I don't know what happened at Indi , but it sounds like we have pushed the clock back 10 years and it makes me feel like I wasted a decade of my life.
  I'm all for positive changes , but until the mind set of the officers of the club change in a more positive direction I don't think that is possible.

  Marty,
     You and your wife have done great things in the tally room and I commend you for that and the work you have done with judging. That said I would strongly suggest that you defer to the people that are involved with the TB class befor making any changes.

[CharlesTurner]

Found out there is no pre-registration required.

Jeff Mays sent the agenda to me.  Evidently, the head judges have only sent this to a select few:


2013 MCA ANNUAL JUDGES’ MEETING
AER Remanufacturing
1605 Surveyor Boulevard
Carrollton, Texas

11 October 2013

A G E N D A

9 AM   President’s Welcome                   Steve Prewitt
9:10   Head Judges’ Opening Statements                   Allen Stewart, Jim Silverman
9:30   2013 Judges’ Budget review                                                        Jim Silverman
9:45   Judges Secretary’s Report                                                                   Tari Rupp
10:00   Classification Report, MOTOSHO Update                                     Patsy Brown                
10:15   Certified Judge’s/Gold Card Program                                         Jim Silverman
10:30   Break
10:35   1st and 2nd Generation Report                                            Allen Stewart
11:00   3rd, 4th, and 5th Generation Report                                 Jim Silverman
11:25   Proposals for 2014 Show Season                      Allen Stewart, Jim Silverman
   * Budget
   * ANHJ’s Agreement
   * Show Classes
12:00   Lunch                   
          Comments by:  April Rawson   
                                   Product Marketing Manage
                                   Roush Performance                               
1:00   Workshop Guidelines
1:15   Workshop
3:00   Workshop Feedback:
   * 1st and 2nd Generation
   * 3rd Generation
   * 4th and 5th Generation
   * Modified
   * Occasional/Daily Driven
   * Shelby and Thoroughbred
4:30   General Discussion, Proposed Changes, Recommendations to MCA Board of Directors
6:00   Wrap Up


Note:  Time slots are approximate and flexible.  However, there are many specific topics to cover so it is imperative to remain focused on the schedule.   

[Laurie S.]

Lol, I didn't get a copy and I'm on the Judging Committee.  Go figure.

[rcampbell]

Tim I'm sorry but I do not know you or your qualifications but if you read my post I listed those that I have judged with through the years and I mentioned there are more but I have not judged with them. I did not intentionally leave you out. But to answer your question I did not restore my two TBred cars but there is not one bolt, screw, or clamp I have not touched. I helped in getting both of my cars running. One had not been started since its restoration in 1982 and the since 1989. I am currently restoring my 69 Shelby which we are taking to a lower end TBred. I have found every NOS part that was needed for the restoration and have been involved in every aspect of the restoration to date. My first car was a 1970 Mach 1 that I bought when I was 15 and my wife and I performed a complete tear down of the car and reassembled every nut bolt and screw. We showed that car in the ISCA from the time I was 19 until age 23. We kept that car for 33 years and sold it to buy my first TBred. I have been a gold card judge for the past 9 years and have helped with judging on 7 TBred cars. I can tell you that my knowledge is not even close to those I mentioned.

Again my reason for posting is because of what I saw at Indy and hearing people complain that have never judged in this class. I believe if changes need to be made it should come from those that have been judging these cars for years.

Rick     

[midlife]

I'm not a bit surprised about all of the comments.  When I was on the board and Executive Committee, there were many agendas put forth at the last minute without consultation, without much forethought, and that appeared to be pushed hurriedly with little discussion.  The fact that the Judge's meeting agenda was not distributed widely to all judges and date selection is symptomatic of those in charge that don't appear to think of how things appear to others.  When Head Judges are re-assigned at a moments notice without BOD discussion or quit suddenly, then something is dramatically amiss.

For these and a few other reasons, I decided not to participate on the MCA BOD anymore.  It appears that little has changed in the past 3-4 years.

[CharlesTurner]

Randy: I've always wondered why the MCA president has sole authority to appoint head judges.  I think there is some approval process, but from what I understand, the BOD usually does not contest.  Maybe there should be a formal vetting process for head judges?

[midlife]

Randy: I've always wondered why the MCA president has sole authority to appoint head judges.  I think there is some approval process, but from what I understand, the BOD usually does not contest.  Maybe there should be a formal vetting process for head judges?

The MCA Bylaws state: "The President shall appoint the Parliamentarian, Sergeants-at-Arms, Historian, Publisher, National Head Judge and if required, a National Head Judge Representative with the concurrence of the Board of Directors when appointing non-board members to support roles."

It appears that the National Head Judge serves solely at the pleasure of the President. 

Personally, I believe the MCA President and main officers should be spokesmen of the MCA, not spokesmen for the MCA.

[ruppstang]

  Something that bothers me about some of the comments on this thread are to the effect that if you don't show up to the judge's meeting, then you must not care, so don't complain.  We have to be very careful with this attitude.  There are many in the club that I respect and would very much like to see them at a judge's meeting, but it is not realistic to expect everyone to attend. 

Charles thanks for noting that, and to those who were offended by my comments I apologize. My only desire was to have the best people there in order that a good solution is found. I have told others that can not attend I would be happy to carry a letter or list of their ideas with me. I have also noted some of the comments and suggestions found on this thread.  I would also like to thank those that are going, I realize the time and expense is considerable.  I am not sure why some think I have any more say on this than any other MCA member or judge. We always vote on changes and that is why I thought it important some of the who's who are there. Most of you are passionate about our hobby as am I and that is why I think it is worth the effort to try to fix things.
 Marty 

[CharlesTurner]

Didn't want to single out anyone with regards to those comments, but I think they were pretty harsh and not the type of language that should be condoned.  Going to this meeting is a $500+ investment to most who will be attending.  I can think of a lot of better things to do with that kind of money.

The round-table format for the judge's meeting is an absolute waste of time as far as I'm concerned.  Most judges could care less about a budget review or a presentation by a 3rd party vendor.  Judges are interested in details and how they can learn more to further their own knowledge and help MCA's customers (members).  This is why, when I was head judge, that we changed the format of the meeting to a 2 day education/seminar format.  That's a much better service to the judges and members in my opinion.  Such a shame that the seminar format was canned after I resigned.

With good assistant national head judges, there should be continuous improvements throughout the calendar year being recommended by Gold Card and Certified Judges.  The assistant head/gold/certified judges really ought to be the foot soldiers, evaluating and considering improvements.  Under this scenario, any annual round-table discussions should be between the national and assistant head judges to discuss what recommendations to send forth to the MCA BOD for approval. 

One last thing about these round-table judge's meeting is that any voting that occurs is completely non-binding.  We've had meetings with 25-30 in attendance and maybe 10 that aren't even judges.  Is this the type of membership polling that fairly represents the opinions of other members?  I know that in any given year, there are approximately 200-300 individual members that volunteer their time to judge.  Should less than 10% of those be accountable for setting forth the judging program objectives?

[ruppstang]

A friend Scott Behnche of West Cost Classic Cougar posted this on another forum. I thought it was quite good and some things that we all should be reminded of from time to time.

Brainstorming Rules

Effective brainstorming can be accomplished by following simple brainstorming do’s and don’ts with your team. A brainstorming session is a tool for generating as many ideas or solutions as possible to a problem or issue. It is not a tool for determining the best solution to a problem or issue.

Before beginning any effective brainstorming session, ground rules must be set. This does not mean that boundaries are set so tightly that you can’t have fun or be creative. It does mean that a code of conduct for person to person interactions has been set. It’s when this code of conduct is breached that people stop being creative.

The best way to have meaningful groundrules is to have the team create their own. Try performing a mini-brainstorming session around creating brainstorming groundrules. It should provide a nice opportunity to practice the skills necessary for an effective brainstorming session. This also allows the team to take ownership of acceptable and unacceptable behaviors. Only if the team hasn’t addressed the key groundrules should you (as the facilitator) add to the list. Once the groundrules list is generated, be sure to gain consensus that the session will be conducted according to them, and post them in a highly visible location in the room.

With that, here are four key groundrules that are useful when conducting a brainstorming session:

1. There are no dumb ideas. Period. It is a brainstorming session, not a serious matter that requires only serious solutions. Remember, this is one of the more fun tools of quality, so keep the entire team involved!

2. Don’t criticize other people’s ideas. This is not a debate, discussion or forum for one person to display superiority over another.

3. Build on other people’s ideas. Often an idea suggested by one person can trigger a bigger and/or better idea by another person. Or a variation of an idea on the board could be the next “velcro” idea. It is this building of ideas that leads to out of the box thinking and fantastic ideas.

4. Reverse the thought of “quality over quantity.” Here we want quantity; the more creative ideas the better. As a facilitator, you can even make it a challenge to come up with as many ideas as possible and compare this team’s performance to the last brainstorming session you conducted.

[TLea]

Tim I'm sorry but I do not know you or your qualifications but if you read my post I listed those that I have judged with through the years and I mentioned there are more but I have not judged with them. I did not intentionally leave you out. But to answer your question I did not restore my two TBred cars but there is not one bolt, screw, or clamp I have not touched.
Rick   

Charles, The good thing about our relationship is we can disagree and we are both OK with it. I appreciate that we can do that. One thing I think can be learned by many that would help all of these type disputes is to avoid as I call them "triangles". That is when someone hears something or says something about a situation to another without addressing the person directly. Pick up the phone and call them, it will resolve 98% before it comes to this. There are several involved in this thread that will attest to the fact that over the last year I have called to voice my concerns many times.

Rick, My comments are not meant against you personally in any way. They were for clarification. I dont feel slighted by not being named, my ego is not that big or easilly bruised. Its more to address where the opinions come from and how they are considered. I probably attended 30 MCA shows before I had a name to some other than Jeff's friend. I dont claim to have any more or less knowledge than anyone but I have invested thousands of dollors and my time to as Charles put it volunteer so I have a right to be heard and considered.
The second comment about if you have restored a car addresses Bob's comment about who can be a T bred judge. I dont think ownership alone is enough. Anyone with means could buy a car tomorrow and it doesnt have anything to do with qualifications. (again, that comment is not directed at you)

Marty,
Thank you for your apology. That didnt come across well even though I know what you meant

[mgmradio]

Tim,
  Damn now I know who you are..... Your that northerner that follows Jeff around......