Topic: 69 mustang 428 cobrajet fuel pump

[69cobrajetrugae2]

Hi:



I cannot find a suitable replacement fuel pump for my car.

The correct "bowl bottom" 428 cobra jet fuel pump will not fit because the power steering pump reservoir is too close to the fittings, clocking the housing will not help. It is tight all the way around.  The existing pump has two fuel in and out towers which drop down and clear the power steering pump.  There is a metal line from the pump to the 735 holley carb and a 2 inch hose from the metal line to the filter nipple.  It looked bone stock to me. According to the Marti report my car was not ordered with power steering.  Again, it looks bone stock but the pump looks to be a 70 TRW service part, according to Cobra jet.org.


All of the aftermarket pumps available with the towers a physically smaller than the existing pump.  The number on the existing pump is 40361, which sounds like and looks like an Airtech. The Airtech replacement pump for a 390 has part number 361, not 40361.  It is much smaller than the existing pump, but looks like it would work. The Carter M6984 looks to be the exact same pump as the Airtech 361 with
the number inked on the body of the pump.

A new liquid filled gauge reads 3PSIG in series with the carb and I get 4PSIG when I pinch off the hose after the gauge.  The car runs like hell on the freeway and I never noticed any indications that the fuel pump was a problem in terms of performance.  The reason I wanted to change the pump is that I thought it might be leaking a small amount of fuel into the crankcase.  My bench test was inconclusive but it was leaking oil around the gasket installed in the car, and the old gasket had a "solvent washed look" to it.

Attached are a couple of pics of the pump which came with the car.

Thank you for your assistance.

Ken

[J_Speegle]

Hi:
I cannot find a suitable replacement fuel pump for my car.

Hi Ken - guess the first question is what is "suitable" to you. Do you want it to look sort of stock or just get the car down the road?

The correct "bowl bottom" 428 cobra jet fuel pump will not fit because the power steering pump reservoir is too close to the fittings, clocking the housing will not help. It is tight all the way around.  The existing pump has two fuel in and out towers which drop down and clear the power steering pump.  There is a metal line from the pump to the 735 holley carb and a 2 inch hose from the metal line to the filter nipple.  It looked bone stock to me. According to the Marti report my car was not ordered with power steering.  Again, it looks bone stock but the pump looks to be a 70 TRW service part, according to Cobra jet.org.

So the clearance issue comes from the non-(likely from a different application) PS pump and not the pump since there are plenty of 428CJ's with with a stock shaped fuel pump and PS

If your answer to the first question is you want it to look stock then you'll be looking for the right ps pump housing and if not then you just need a normal 428 (non-CJ) or 390 fuel pump - then use the same home made routing and hoses the car came with from what I understand of your posting

[69cobrajetrugae2]

Thank you Jeff for your reply.

Tomorrow I will post pics of the power steering pump and brackets.

I am not sure what block I have because I have not pulled the oil pan to check for the 3rd webbing at the main saddles.  The date code next to the oil filter is illegible but it looks like a "5", which would indicate "1965".  However, the block number is C6ME, which we're made from 1966 to 1970.  At this point I could have any "FE block.

Did different "FE" blocks have different bolt locations drilled in the block for power steering pumps, air conditioning etc. or we're they interchangeable?

For example.  If the bolt holes we're drilled in a slightly different location for a 390 or 410 or a 406 block but symmetrical with respect to the power steering bracket, then that would explain why the power steering reservoir blocks the fuel fittings for a stock 428 fuel pump.

Or I have the correct 428 block but the power steering unit and brackets we're out of a 1967 390 T-BIRD or some other FE donor car.

See what you think tomorrow when I post the pics, thanks again.

[69cobrajetrugae2]

Hi Jeff, here is a pic.

I tried to post 6 pics but it didn't load, perhaps the files we're too large.

Thanks

Ken

[svo2scj]

my guess is a correct style FE fuel pump (with the inlet/out let pointing to 10 Oclock) will clear the PS.

Yours looks like a FE TRUCK application pump.

You can look at all the styles on Ebay http://www.ebay.com/bhp/427-ford-fuel-pump  This is for a car.
(if you find your style you will see that rangers and trucks will be in the application list)

Mark
http://www.428cobrajet.org/id-fuel-pump  Credit to Scott H www.428Cobrajet.org

[J_Speegle]

I think you have a number of things going on here. Still think the normal fuel pump would fit by reclocking but you reported it still hit so it mush be the clearance between the pump and the fuel pump body not the hose outlets since clocking addresses that

PS pump pulley is different from original and your running the belt on the water pump not only on the crank pulley as original so you likely have a different belt that is pulling the pump closer (when the belt is tightened) than originally.

Notice the belt routing, adjustment of the pump and other details in the following pictures of other CJ PS only cars

[69cobrajetrugae2]

Thank you Mark and Jeff for your help.

Thanks to you fellows, I now believe that I have a brutish power steering pump and reservoir most likely off a truck, as you suggested. My pulley is larger and my reservoir seems larger, see attached pic.  Not to mention the belt routing is incorrect.

Would the correct pump and a belt and perhaps a high pressure hose correct this error?  Do my brackets look correct?  I have a 3 pulley on the water pump and a 2 pulley on the crank, one on the alternator, no air pump installed.

I installed the existing pump back in the car and even with the 3 PSIG reading in series, the runs as strong as ever.  The hand pressure required to manually actuate the correct cobra jet pump is considerable more than the pump that came with my car. I am curious if the stock pump was overkill in terms of output.

 If the pump that I have now ever does fail, my only option at that time would be to install the 390 replacement pump with the fuel in and out towers, but it is smaller than the one I have now and I may experience fuel starvation at full throttle.

Any further suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks guys.

Ken

[J_Speegle]

Thank you Mark and Jeff for your help.

Would the correct pump and a belt and perhaps a high pressure hose correct this error?  Do my brackets look correct?

Brackets look ok from this angle and yes if you put back all the original/correct parts everything should fit just like the 10,000+ other 428CJ cars built

I have a 3 pulley on the water pump and a 2 pulley on the crank, one on the alternator, no air pump installed.

Looks like you have the incorrect lower pulley also

I installed the existing pump back in the car and even with the 3 PSIG reading in series, the runs as strong as ever.  The hand pressure required to manually actuate the correct cobra jet pump is considerable more than the pump that came with my car. I am curious if the stock pump was overkill in terms of output.

Don't think the Ford engineering division thought so. If they could have used (performed as expected) the lower performance fuel pump Ford would have surely used it and save dollars (read made more money for the share holders). I would just purchase a look alike and install it once you get the other little details worked out

[69cobrajetrugae2]

Thank you Jeff:

As you point out, I counted 3 sheaves on the crank pulley on one of your pics, and mine has 2.

With the adjusting bolts loose, the existing power steering pump will not relocate to the correct position to allow the proper clearance for the stock fuel pump. If I have the right brackets, then the pump itself must be different in the way it mounts to the power steering brackets. In fact, there is very little movement in terms of adjustment. It is very hard to get correct tension on the power steering belt because it seems to bind in the adjustment mode, as if something is misaligned.Therefore there must be a difference in the location of the bolt holes from one power steering pump to another.

You are right about Ford and the stock CJ fuel pump. I think that the after market Carter stock CJ replacement fuel pumps and perhaps others are not quite right in terms of construction. I am beginning to see why stock carter X code pumps are worth so much money. My biggest concern is that a replacement fuel pump might overpower my carb floats.

 A mechanical pumps capacity must be related to various factors. The size of the diaphragm and surface area of the pump chamber, check valves and porting.  The travel of the diaphragm, or lift, and the return spring.

Why do these new pumps have such a high rate spring?  A stronger spring would allow for a faster pumping action at higher RPM's, but use more horsepower and there is more tension on the cam lobe which might cause it to go flat.

I'll bet a stock CJ pump with a stock return spring is not that stiff.

If you have a lead on the parts I need to make the conversion, please let me know.

Thanks again.

Ken

[DTruitt]

Jeff and others appear to have been very helpful to you (as always).  I might further suggest you check out the 428 Cobra Jet Registry.  Specifically, this link:

http://www.428cobrajet.org/id-main

You can do a lot of research and comparison to parts on your car vs. what it was originally equipped with when it left the factory.  You can correct any improper part as you like.

Danny