Topic: Passenger Side Rear Quarter Panel

[koski19]

Today was another busy day on the coupe. I finished metal prepping and rust removal of the roof. I then moved on to the rear quarter panel passenger side. After removing just the rusted out/patched areas I was looking at the outer wheel well. Is it fairly straight forward in replacing this panel or should it just be patched? One photos is of the quarter panel before cutting. The second one shows the rusted material removed. Third shows a photo of the outer wheel well from inside the trunk. and the last one shows the new panel temporarily install to get a view. Should I use the whole panel or just what I would need? My attempt here is preserving as much of the original metal as possible.  Looking for some feedback on this repair.

Jeff

[CharlesTurner]

Think you would have the same amount of time removing the whole outer wheel-housing and replacing as you would patching.  Also, would recommend only to replace the damaged areas of the quarter panel, try to stay away from the door jamb edge as this is where fit problems can start.  Also, it's very difficult to duplicate the correct spot weld appearance.

[koski19]

Thanks for the info. PSQ3 shows the amount of metal removed. I believe I removed just the rusted out areas/previous repaired.
I should then remove the outer wheel well housing and install a new one? Can this be done without removing the whole quarter panel?
If so I'm on it. I think I'll be cutting the patch panel just before the depression where the side trim goes clearly staying away from that door jamb edge.


Jeff

[CharlesTurner]

I don't know if you can get the wheel housing out without quarter panel removal, don't see why not, but obviously going to be difficult in areas, which is why you may want to lean towards patching just the outer area.

[koski19]

Thanks for the info....I'll post when the panel is installed....

Jeff

[J_Speegle]

........... which is why you may want to lean towards patching just the outer area.

Also helps maintain more/most of the factory spot welds which will give away the amount of work done  to the car and cost points if you show the car. Two out of three cars we judged this last weekend lost points due to this

[koski19]

I was thinking of buying the outer wheel housing, cut the piece out I need and get it welded in, grind it down and lay a coat of Silver to both sides. Then cut, fit and install the patch panel to the quarter panel fender. Thus preserving about 80% of the panel that's there.  I'll be working on it this week. Probably won't do any welding yet. I'll post some photos as the work continues. Thanks for the info.

Jeff

[CharlesTurner]

I think you're on the right track now.  Try to be mindful of preserving as much of the car as possible.  The end result will be much better than replacing full sections/pieces.

[koski19]

Got it!...Thanks

Jeff

[koski19]

I have a question regarding installing the new panel.

I removed only the rusted out panel section. I purchased a new outer wheel well panel and I have the new quarter panel marked to be trimmed.

When welding in the new pieces should the be welded in "over lapping" each other or "butted" up to each other? What's the preferred method?

I have a 135amp mig welder.

jeff

[cobrajetchris]

I know that preserving the most original sheet metal is best if at all possible however some areas of the country are in a rust belt and you have to make a choice of repairing the car or junking it because original spot welds can't always be duplicated and  you will lose points at a show. The downside of sectioning in quarter panels at non factory seams is much more welding which leads to excessive heat and warping of the panel. When you create a seam in a panel especially all across the panel it will almost definitely show up down the road as it shrinks even with the best of preparation. The other problem is you will need to finish both sides of the panel as the seam will show up in the trunk area. If this was my car I would try to locate N.O.S quarter panels and wheelhouses and install complete at the factory seams. I know this will be more costly but you have a better job. If this is not an option I would contact someone that has replaced these panels with aftermarket ones and get their opinion on the best brand. The new aftermarket qtr. panels at least go up to the factory sail panel seam. If original type spot welds are that important there are modern squeeze type resistance spot welders used in collision shops and  could also be an option. Replacing panels at the factory seams are not just my opinion but recommended by almost all car manufacturers for repairing collision related damage. I try not to get too caught up in that only original once crap as it leads to people junking cars are giving up on a project because a factory spot weld is missing or a number on the back of a block is wrong. Good luck on your project and don't give up.

[CharlesTurner]

... Replacing panels at the factory seams are not just my opinion but recommended by almost all car manufacturers for repairing collision related damage. ...

Does the manufacturer also recommend plug welds, like 99% of the folks replacing full panels do?  I don't want to get into an argument over this, but there are clearly advantages to leaving as much of the original sheet metal as possible.  If you look at the quarter panel he is replacing, the rust is isolated to maybe 5-10% of the entire panel.  I'd much rather have the structural rigidity of the factory installed quarter panel.

This fella came to the concours forum for help, so obviously he is interested in authenticity.  The input that he receives here will be influenced by that.  If he asked the same question on VMF or somewhere else, he would get different answers.  Most folks don't care about spot weld appearance and factory fitment, but we here on this site do and I don't appreciate the reference to "only original once crap".

[cobrajetchris]

Manufactures now mostly recommend squeeze type resistance spot welding in area the machine can reach and the rest M.I.G plug welding or adhesive bonding. These are approved by the manufacturer and tested as being as strong as the original. As for as the same strength as an original spot weld from the factory. I have seen many factory spot welds fail due to wrong settings of the machine or whatever so they are not perfect either. I guarantee if you take the quarter panel on this car and section it all over the place you will end up with too much body filler that will cause waves and other problems. As far as this being a concourse sight, what does that have to do with trying to inform a guy the professional way of doing a replacement? When I install quarter panels are any other panel I make sure the fit and finish are better than the factory even if the factory spot welds are removed. A plug weld can be properly dressed and made to look like a factory spot weld with some effort. I don't know what VMF means but if you think I don't care about good panel fit you are sadly mistaken. The factory fit of these cars was very hit and miss, some where very good and others terrible. I take the time to fit everything before even considering lighting up a torch. I am sorry you are offended by my original once comment but I hear that all too often from people that never turned a wrench on a car and have no idea what it takes to try to bring back rusty cars back from the grave or all the rest that goes into a full scale restoration. Don't get me wrong if I can save a panel from replacement I will for the reasons you mentioned but this has to be weighed out against the extent of making seams all over that are not Factory either. 

[koski19]

Guys!....I didn't mean to start a debate on this thread. Thank you both for your points of view.
I should clarify that my 66 Coupe restoration is ground up and the first ground up I have ever attempted.
I've owned 5 other Mustangs since the 1970's. Each one was fixed using the ability of my skill level at the time
and then the car was sold. I'm at a point where I believe that a full ground up restoration is within my current skill level.

This coupe is being brought back to life to represent what it looked like from the showroom floor. There is very little rust or corrosion and very few panels need repair. I haven't yet entertained the idea of showing the car or entering it in any car shows here locally. However, that may change later down the road. Reno hosts Hot Augusts Nights and an MCA event in the Spring.

Living in Nevada, I don't need to contend with humidity, moisture, rust or road salts in the winter. It's pretty damn dry most
of the year. This morning we're at 35%. However, a good rust inhibitor is being sprayed on the body and frame as I work preserving
this car.

The photos posted are of an area that needs repair. I subscribe to the idea of preserving as much of the original sheet metal as possible.
This quarter panel will need three patches. One, that replaces the rusted out wheel well fender and lip. Two, a small patch to the bottom of the rear
tire area. and three, a patch for the outer rear wheel housing at the rear of the opening. I have the panel for the quarter panel wheel opening
and lip (needs to be trimmed) and I ordered the outer wheel well rear patch panel. The third panel will be made from the left over pieces.

So my questions are:

1. Do these panels get welded by over lapping or do I use a "butt" weld? What is the preferred method?
2. I don't see any spot welds in what I removed or what will need to be installed. I do have a spot weld drill set
    and welding tip.
3. My thoughts are that the outer wheel well patch get welded in first, followed by the wheel well fender lip and finally the rear outside bottom.
    What do you guys think?

I've read alot about welding and installing panels and there seems to be many avenues to get the job done. I'm looking for
what works best in this situation. Of course I don't want the welds to show, don't want waves or wrinkles in the panels so, what
procedure would work best?

Thanks again for all your input and advice. I'll post finished photos when the jobs complete.

Jeff

[cobrajetchris]

Jeff, there are several options you have for welding in the sections. I would say butt welding in the section would be the best method however it's very difficult and the sectioned in piece has to fit exact with about a 16th of an inch gap. The more popular way is to use a flange tool that crimps a 1/4 inch step in the panel and the section rest inside that area so when you weld it up and grind it smooth it will be like a butt weld. I would not recommend a lap weld as you are creating another layer that has to be leveled out throughout the panel and you run into problems. The problem with the flange tool is it can be hard to get into tight areas like the wheelhouse but since you are removing that it may not be an issue. As for the welding of the wheelhouse to the qtr. panel this can be done by drilling 5/16 holes in the qtr. and plug weld it to the wheelhouse. This was spot welded at the factory. In the collision industry it has become common to use adhesive bonding in the wheelhouse area due to corrosion problems down the road and it also seals the panel from the inside out. In your case you have to be careful as you are welding and bonding in close proximity and the adhesive will break down when over heated. From your photos it looks like you pretty much need the entire outer wheelhouse replaced as the lip area where the qtr. panel is gone. Sectioning in the outer edge may be an option as with not replacing the qtr. panel it will be difficult to replace the entire panel. I know this is  lot to take in and I hope I am helping you and not trying to confuse you. I would recommend you visit a mustang restoration shop and get their opinions on things and a lot of times they will give you a tour of their shop to see how they do things, just make sure they are reputable and have examples of their finished product to show you.