Topic: Advice regarding door weatherstrip

[J_Speegle]

+1 and if you use the Herco stuff then read the other threads that discuss how to store and use the product

[Angela]

Received a can of the Herco adhesive and did a whole bunch of searching and reading prior posts from within this forum concerning how to glue these weatherstrips on. Last night I used some blue painter's tape and test-fitted the Carpenter weatherstrip to the passenger door. As previously mentioned, I'm not very pleased with these weatherstrips, as compared to the originals. That said, I don't believe there exists any other option, since I've confirmed the "other" weatherstrip manufacturers are getting these seals from Carpenter (for this application.... I cannot speak to other apps).

With the seal taped temporarily into place, the door (which aligns perfectly without the seal) won't shut without TREMENDOUS force.... so much that I'm fearful of breaking something. To make matters worse, even under that force, it looks like the seal is making contact with the rocker panel section of the door opening and at the top of the leading edge of the door/pillar, but NOT at all at the trailing edge of the door and body (where the striker plate mounts). At this point I expect it to be insanely noisy as we drive down the highway.

Can anyone give me some tips as to how this might be adjusted? Like I said, without the seals the doors fit and align with the body absolutely perfectly on all three edges of the door. They're the original doors and rebuilt hinges.... everything is nice and tight.

I've read a few comments about applying heat and Glycerin to the seals to help them compress. Even if that helps, I believe the weatherstrip is to "skinny" at the trailing edge of the door to ever seal up that surface. Any advice?

[Toploader]

Not really advice, but I thought I wanted to share. It's a quote of a Q & A from the Auto Restorer Magazine about a similar problem. The question is answered by an auto restoration professional.

Q: I think my weather strip's too thick

I am restoring a 1980 Camaro with a T-top. I really enjoy your magazine because it has helped me tremendously with my restoration project. Now I hope you can help with the problem I am having with the T-top weather strip.

I have bought new weather stripping from two different manufacturers and both have fit perfectly into the T-top slots. The problem is that I cannot install the T-tops with the weather strip in place. I weigh over 200 pounds and I cannot push hard enough to get the tops to slide in place over the retainers. In my estimation the weather strip is too thick.

When I talked with the manufacturer they suggested I put the car outside and let the weather strip heat up in the sun. I tried that. I tried putting grease on the rubber, all to no avail. I even broke the thin aluminum channel running around the glass trying to install the tops. (Fortunately, there is a repair kit for that.)

I know there were two manufacturers for T-tops that year (Hurst and Fisher). I am sure I have the Fisher tops due to the single release lever. The weather strip is supposed to fit the Fisher tops. Do you have any suggestions? I am about to try trimming 1/4" off the weather strip all the way around. (Foolishly, I threw out the original weather strip so I cannot compare thicknesses.)

A:
I encountered this same sort of problem many times in my restoration shop. Sometimes the reproduction seal's physical dimensions are different. Sometimes its physical properties, namely its hardness or Durometer range, are different. And, of course, it's also possible that both are different.

A lot of times automotive weather strippping is tubular (hollow inside) and while the outer dimensions of the reproduction may be the same as the original, its wall thickness may be different. Even if the repro is manufactured from the same type of rubber, the thicker walls will increase its hardness.

The compression set of rubber is a measurement of its ability to return to its original thickness after prolonged compressive stresses at a given temperature and deflection. If your reproduction seal has relatively poor compression set performance it will get progressively easier to close the door, close the trunk, put the T-tops on, etc. Of course, this presumes that you can get the T-tops on in the first place.

When we did full restorations on certain cars where we knew we'd have a weather strip problem, we'd sometimes install the reproduction weather stripping as early as we could so as to let it begin compression deforming.

Sometimes I selectively trimmed the seals by cutting or grinding them. Sometimes I used seals sold for one application on another one because the "wrong" seals functioned better than the "right" ones.

In many cases I reused the original seals when their condition allowed it.

In your particular case, you violated one of the basic rules of automotive restoration when you threw away the old weather strip before the job was completed. At the very least you could have compared the reproduction seals to your originals to help determine what's wrong with the repros. And perhaps you could have also had the option of reinstalling the old seals if they were still in usable condition. But, that's water under the bridge now.

If I were in your position I'd try modifying the reproduction seals by trimming or grinding them.

[ruppstang]

It is hard to trouble shoot this kind of thing with seeing it. Have the doors been off the car? Or are you just replacing the seals?I do not think the problem is with the seal. I have used far too many of them with no problems. I would glue it on and readjust the door to close. You may have to adjust a couple of times. If all else fails have someone that has some experience help you.
Best of luck Marty

[Angela]

FYI, I bought a new can of the Herco adhesive and it looks like perhaps they listened to complaints regarding the rusty brushes.... the brush handle is coated with paint or some type of plastic coating. :-)

The Herco adhesive seemed to work OK on most of the weatherstrip. However, it doesn't hold the rubberized ends of the weatherstrip. As was suggested in this thread, I cleaned the seals and scuffed up the rubberized ends with sandpaper prior to gluing. Both ends, however, came loose the first time I shut the doors. I tried re-glueing them but with the same result.

Any advice? Else I might try the 3M weatherstrip adhesive to see if it would hold the rubber ends any better. Not sure what else to try.

[CharlesTurner]

Did you apply the adhesive to the door and the weather-strip?  Must be some type of silicone or wax release on the rubber.

[Angela]

I cleaned the weatherstrip and the door with PPG wax and grease remover several times before gluing. Yes, I applied the glue to both the rubber and door, pressed them together for a brief moment, pulled them back apart and allowed the glue to tack up for a minute before pressing them together. The glue just doesn't hold to the rubber ends of the weatherstrip (visibly appears to be a different material than the rest of the weatherstrip).

[CharlesTurner]

I can tell you if the neoprene contact adhesive won't hold it, the 3M glue definitely will not.  Only suggestion I would have is to use some 40 grit sandpaper on the contact surface of the rubber and also scuff off the doors with a scotch-brite pad in the contact area.

Assume you are installing the plastic push-plugs at each end?

[Angela]

Thanks, I can try some 40 grit for one last attempt. I do plan to install the plastic pins but haven't done so yet. I put a clamp on the ends of the weatherstrip for a couple hours and then checked to see if the glue was holding it. I figured there was no sense in installing the pin until I knew the glue held. :-)

[Angela]

I am resurfacing this old thread because through no lack of effort I remain unable to get any glue whatsoever to stick to the ends of the door weatherstrip. I am referring to the two ends of the door weatherstrip, one at the top rear of the door and the other end at the top front (leading edge) of the door. I swear it looks like the rubber at these two ends of the seal is of a different composition that the rest of the seal. I've literally tried everything folks suggested, including cleaning the seal with every form of cleaner I can think of, sanding the rubber with 80, 60 and 40 grit paper and clamping the ends to the door while the glue dries.

I've used 3M clear and yellow weatherstrip adhesive, 3M spray adhesives (multiple types), the HERCO adhesive. Absolutely nothing will stick to the ends of the weatherstrip... and I mean like not even slightly sticking. It's driving me mad. What on earth is going on? Does anyone have any other advice or has run into this problem? All of these glues stick like crazy to the door, but peels off the rubber with near-zero effort.

[TLea]

I dont really have anything new to offer but reading your posts about carpet bonding, vent window seal and door weatherstrips you seem to be having more issues than normal. I would say something is missing in your technique or conditions or understanding of how contact adhesives work. Not critcizing(sp?) just trying to help

[Angela]

That's fair; I can understand that. Yes, I have had one heck of a time with adhesives lately. I don't know what the common issue might be. In the end, I successfully glued the vent window seals to the frames using the Herco adhesive and some slight scuffing of the chrome where the seals reside. The fold-down carpet adhered well using another 3M headliner adhesive I found locally. And the door weatherstrips adhere to the door using any of the adhesives I've tried, except for the very ends of the rubber.
You have a point.... the problem is likely me, but I don't know what the issue is and I'm trying to learn. I'm not stupid.... I've cleaned the rubber, scuffed them and tried multiple adhesives without success. I've called the companies that make the adhesives to obtain some additional tips and have followed those tips. Nothing works. The one person I cannot get a hold of is the guy who made the weatherstrips.... I thought maybe he would have some insight. Perhaps they had problems with a "formula" at one point wherein glue wouldn't stick???

[jwc66k]

The one person I cannot get a hold of is the guy who made the weatherstrips....

You may have swerved into the reason. Some processes use a separate mold release to facilitate the item's removal either from a mold or to let an extrusion "flow" from its dies, such as a spray or other application method - think oil. There is another method that included the mold release in the material, which is the more common used method today. The best example I can give of the problem is the repair of 64-66 consoles, which ware made in molds with a spray-on type mold release, and the 69 and on, consoles that had the release included in the plastic. The 64-66 process included a step to wash off the spray-on type mold release. The results are that you can use general use epoxy to repair a 64-66 console, but need a special epoxy for 69 and on, consoles. (I left out 67 and 68 because those were the years that the process changed and may have had both.) I went to a local plastics store (TAP Plastics) where they told me about the differences in materials and processes, and sold me the epoxy that worked. This may be what you are faced with, plus finding an adhesive that works.
Jim

[Angela]

OK, I had the weatherstrip tested.... and I feel a bit better about this now. I'm told the ends of the weatherstrip are made from poly(ethylene: propylene:diene) rubber which is TERRIBLY difficult to bond. Wonderful. Grrrrr. Anyway, I feel better knowing that it's a difficult material to work with, rather than I am personally unable to use glue. :-)
I don't know where to go from here, but I'll keep searching.

[Angela]

OK, I FINALLY have this weatherstrip adhesion issue solved! Hopefully this will help someone; I cannot be the only person who's run into this problem.

I mentioned I had a chemist test the rubber from the Carpenter-made weatherstrip.... they tested a tiny sample from the very extreme end of the weatherstrip which no glue would stick to. As previously mentioned the chemist reproted it's a type of rubber that is extremely difficult to bond. If anyone wants to know the chemical name for that rubber compound, I can dig it up and post the info. Regardless, the chemist told me the only thing he knew would bond with this type of rubber is a chemical made by Loctite...... "LOCTITE 401" is the name of the product. I tried it.... it worked... adheres and dries in seconds.... absolutely amazing! Weatherstrip ends are finally glued to the doors!!!

Hope that helps someone in the future.