Topic: sealer application around seat belt anchors, and floor to rocker panel joint ,68

[Murf]

1968, April 03 built, SJ plant.  On the bottom of the vehicle certain areas have a sealer brushed around/on them. ( Seat belt anchors, floor to rocker panel joint and the area where the plate at the front of the rear fame rail is welded to the floor pan)  All areas had black rubbery feeling sealer applied with a brush.  The sealer is certainly applied after the epoxy primer was applied to the floor, but was it applied before or after the body was painted?  In other words when one peeked under a white car would the mentioned areas appear to have the black sealer brushed over whatever white paint or overspray covered the sealed areas, or would the brushed on sealer have paint/overspray on top of the sealer.  Any comments appreciated and certainly any images to illustrate your thoughts are welcome.  Thanks!

[Dudley]

hello John, check the photos listed in my signature, I believe there at examples of the seat belt bolts, etc. If not I can send some to you.

[J_Speegle]

I've used a black elastomertic (simply way to say pliable) that was smooth in texture (no grit) Get it at Home Depot in the roofing area.

The bead along the rocker panel to floor often does not go around the rear spring front mounting panel but have seen a few where it appears the worker for some reason (maybe the gun kept pumping) took a detour around that edge for 6" to a foot or so but this is not the norm for the year.

The pinch weld produces a shadow  (normally 3-4 inches depending on the angle of the gun) for the bead along the rocker so I've never seen body color or pinch weld black out overspray  over it and the front inners are typically too far inward to get any overspray.  Not the rear inner seat belt anchors are in a location where some overspray typically reaches

Its difficult to tell which came first at San Jose in 68 (sealer or body color and pinch weld black out on a typical car since overpsray is often cleaned away with the grit, grime and grease but looking through the pictures I have it appears that these sealers were applied before the exterior color application - though as mentioned not very likely we would see any paint over it

[tim_morrison82]

I can check my car, well one side of it anyway. its an earlier date, but same plant, in white. one side is well preserved, the other is badly repaired... hopefully I can find something for you.

[tim_morrison82]

This is the best pic i have in my possession without getting under my car with this crappy post op knee brace...



i have had a few too many whisky's to go through what i can see on the seam sealer/reinforcement plate, but i think the chip on the plate itself shows what looks like white paint on it, but the black from the sealer still looks black on the side that you would expect more paint (on the bottom side)... so i am going to conclude that the whiter residue is most likely dust and dirt trapped there by moisture/oil... but someone with a little more experience/less whisky might be able to help a little more...

[Murf]

It is difficult to tell when the body color was applied since the sealer tends to not hold the paint well.  How about the rear trunk drop off area at the bottom when it joins the quuarter panel.  Does it look as if the body color there was applied after the sealer was brushed on? 

[J_Speegle]

It is difficult to tell when the body color was applied since the sealer tends to not hold the paint well.  How about the rear trunk drop off area at the bottom when it joins the quarter panel.  Does it look as if the body color there was applied after the sealer was brushed on?

Difficult - I would think - for the body color to get to the back side of the trunk drop and that sealer.

Found a picture that almost shows which one came first unfortunately is inconclusive IMHO


In this example the worker applying the rocker seam sealer wiped the rag or brush one addition time inside where the normally sealer would stop (Green highlighted surface)  This additional smear is highlighted in pink/purple

Body color overspray starts about the blue arrow and the pinch weld about where the red arrow is. Both are effected by the gun angle and the pinch weld working as a mask.

Unfortunately its difficult to see where the pinch weld meats the smear if it stops because the sealant is applied over it or if it was over the sealer at one time and simply wore away. Would have been nice to pry/chip the sealer away in that one area to see if it was black, orange (exterior color) or red oxide on the back side of the sealer.

[Dudley]

I was in a rush last Thursday and didn't have time to post many pictures, here is the floor to rocker

[Dudley]

seam sealer around seat belt bolts

[J_Speegle]

Looks like (one at least Dudley's pictures) the seal is after the paint process as one would guess but the rocker picture appears to confirm. Strongest indicator IMHO appears to be at the bottom of picture one

Thanks

[Dudley]

forgot one.......

[J_Speegle]

forgot one.......

That's a really odd picture - looks like yellow on the fuel line bracket - or a reflection when that part was added after the fuel line ? (Purple arrow) but we have a nice black bracket to the right with no overspray ?

Also - now (in that area on this car) we've got body color over some of the seam sealer. (Red arrow)

Got to ask - did you purchase this car originally or purchase it later since it appears that some one may have been freshed things a but Its ok - most cars have been played with - we just have to identify those areas and not use them as reference

To the right of that area you can clearly see body color then black (from pinch weld) then sealer (blue arrow area)

IMHO Something not right in the picture but we're getting of John's original request if we go down this road too far

[Dudley]

I used a fluorescent light (which has an aged plastic cover which has yellowed somewhat) as addition illumination which I have noticed in previous pictures that I have taken changes the colors somewhat. The light is good in that it doesn't seem to create as much shadows, but causes coloration issues. I picked out just a few pictures to 'illustrate' the yellowing. There are some pictures that I have deleted because it was so bad.

I purchased it ten years ago, and I would put every dollar I own that it has not been touched up and I wish you could be here to inspect it to agree with me. I disagree with your assesments that things are not right and touch up has taken place. Pictures help but seeing in person is always best.

[J_Speegle]

Thanks Dudley - that clarifies that it (what was shown on that one picture) was not a touch up but that light    Even the trans turns yellow in spots.  With a yellow exterior and overspray it can get misleading.

As always - great car and yes we should share address's - not unusual for me to take a little side trip when in the area attending a show

[Murf]

Thanks for the images and comments.  Still no resolution, but I think it is obvious that the sealer along the edge of the floor pan at the rocker panel junction, the areas under and around the seat belt anchors as well as the sealer along the bottom of the trunk drop-offs was aplied AFTER the primer.  It also seems that the area where the rocker panel meets the floor has NO or next to no body color applied because the painter could not "squirt" his paint on that area without huge effort.  We also seem to agree that the area with sealer on the trunk drop-off had no or little body color overspray because it was not convenient for the painters to hit with body color.  That leaves the area around the seat belt anchors in question, and from the cars I have seen ( not too many cars in the Midwest are candidates for this study) not all cars had body color  overspray extending to the seat belt anchors, but some did. I think that Ford applied more body color on the bottoms of some cars then we as a community of restorers now attempt to replicate, and am making an attempt to replace what was done at San Jose on April 3, 68.  Looking forward to your findings and replies.