Topic: Red Dyed Hardware

[Bob Gaines]

So how do we know which fasteners should have red dye on them? for example in the AMK bolt kits I have I have only seen 2 nuts with red dye for the master cylinder. Any idea how many fasteners on the car could be eligible to receive red dye. Unfortunately I could find no trace of any red dye on any of my original fasteners, but I would like to find out which ones should have the dye. While I am at it I  might as well ask if any other parts on the car may have received any red dye or other coloured dye for that matter. On some other non Mustang cars I have built I have seen some red & green dye present on brake line ends for example

Typically the brake line suppliers will use the red dye on fittings for 68 systems.

[jwc66k]

So how do we know which fasteners should have red dye on them?

The best way is from the pictures Jeff took and threads on the subject.

Again, you don't because you do not have access to complete documentation. The determination is by picture or by member input.

Typically the brake line suppliers will use the red dye on fittings for 68 systems.

Ask about specific hardware use.
Jim

[Bossbill]

I think the issue with the samples I've seen so far is attempting to replicate the results of Dykem 81496 Red Transparent Dye with Dykem Red Layout Fluid 80496.
The opaque 80496 will always look darker than the transparent 81496.

From searches on the web, it appears that 81496 is no longer offered.

Maybe it's time to look for another red tansparent dye...

[Blown351stang]

So how do I find out which fasteners on my car should get the red dye treatment

I have the same problem.

The assembly manuals list where the S100 hardware is and goes but just not knowing what was common to be dyed and what was not so common to have dye on them.

I think the problem is we are looking at cars that are over 48 years old and some are well weathered so hardware is not in a clean condition. Unless some of the older guys   that have been working on them for over 40 years and kept a record of what they have seen and what they are willing to share with us all. 

So we must keep asking the questions.

Here is some photos of my original hardware that you can just make out the red dye.

Steering box bolts


Idler arm bolts


Power steering ram bracket bolts


Rag joint bolt



If anyone has photos of original red dyed hardware post them up.

[J_Speegle]

I have the same problem.

The assembly manuals list where the S100 hardware is and goes but just not knowing what was common to be dyed and what was not so common to have dye on them.

Of course this would differ (which cars an parts were or were not dyed) depending on year, possibly even month and car/options

If anyone has photos of original red dyed hardware post them up.

I hesitate doing so since someone watching will likely see a certain nut or bolt and apply it to their car rather than checking to see if the application is correct for their specific year and car. Think it would work better if we focused in the specific year sections with clear identifiers as to when and where each was used. Just my thoughts

[Bossbill]

As I noticed in another thread on this topic the layout red and Dykem currently available is not transparent and looks more like paint. The transparent Dykem is apparently no longer made.

After looking around I noticed that the art community has a handle on transparent inks, so I bought some alcohol transparent ink and tried it on a cad fastener.

Here is the result.
 

[J_Speegle]

As I noticed in another thread on this topic the layout red and Dykem currently available is not transparent and looks more like paint. The transparent Dykem is apparently no longer made.

After looking around I noticed that the art community has a handle on transparent inks, so I bought some alcohol transparent ink and tried it on a cad fastener.

Looks like it might be in the neighborhood.  Guess this is going to need an protective top coat?

Wonder if it would be better to heat the metal first (slightly) to see if the ink sticks or dyes better. Worth a try.

[bullitt68]

I know this is an old thread, but I was just reading it and thought I would post a recent thread I started on the same subject in case anyone has found and new processes or can shed ore light on the subject.

https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=28516.new#new

[jwc66k]

Some of this discussion caught my attention as the USAF required a similar paint dab, yellow per their specifications, indicating that the torque was inspected on bearings on the azimuth and elevation sections of the 60 foot dish antennas we designed and built under contract (Ford Aerospace and Communications).
In the "1968 Mustang Chassis Assembly Manual" (AM0025) on pages 66 thru 68, are several uses of -S100 finish on hardware used on steering gear with torque specifications also spelled out. Unfortunately, the actual meaning of the "-S100" is not stated, but I believe that in this case, that it indicates the red dye requirement. There are notes referencing the colors used to identify ends of tie rod assemblies, directions of bolt installation for engine options, and adjustment requirements on these pages. If you have a 1968 Mustang, you should get a copy of this manual. Pictures do not specify torque.
The are a lot of smudged hardware part numbers on these manual's pages. In my research for the Mustang Hardware Spreadsheet (See this forums library), I have determined most of the correct part numbers. Send a PM if interested.
(Note: The drawings also state "Mustang and Cougar".)
Jim

[bullitt68]

Some of this discussion caught my attention as the USAF required a similar paint dab, yellow per their specifications, indicating that the torque was inspected on bearings on the azimuth and elevation sections of the 60 foot dish antennas we designed and built under contract (Ford Aerospace and Communications).
In the "1968 Mustang Chassis Assembly Manual" (AM0025) on pages 66 thru 68, are several uses of -S100 finish on hardware used on steering gear with torque specifications also spelled out. Unfortunately, the actual meaning of the "-S100" is not stated, but I believe that in this case, that it indicates the red dye requirement. There are notes referencing the colors used to identify ends of tie rod assemblies, directions of bolt installation for engine options, and adjustment requirements on these pages. If you have a 1968 Mustang, you should get a copy of this manual. Pictures do not specify torque.
The are a lot of smudged hardware part numbers on these manual's pages. In my research for the Mustang Hardware Spreadsheet (See this forums library), I have determined most of the correct part numbers. Send a PM if interested.
(Note: The drawings also state "Mustang and Cougar".)
Jim

Thanks Jim great information

[AJ]

Per Bossbill?s suggestion, I tried some Pinata Sante Fe red ink.  Here?s a photo of how it compares in color to red nut  from an NOS strut kit.   Appears pretty close.   The nut on the right is an original that was bead blasted then colored with the Pinata ink.  Nuts on the left are from the strut kit.  Fwiw

[Bob Gaines]

Per Bossbill?s suggestion, I tried some Pinata Sante Fe red ink.  Here?s a photo of how it compares in color to red nut  from an NOS strut kit.   Appears pretty close.   The nut on the right is an original that was bead blasted then colored with the Pinata ink.  Nuts on the left are from the strut kit.  Fwiw

I don't see any reason to reinvent the wheel. Of course it is always good to have a alternative if needed.The Dykem layout dye that I got 1 month ago is transparent and looks the same as always. Besides being the product that AMK used and most likely still uses I am not for sure if the ink would hold up as good as the layout dye. Maybe it does but no good reason for me to change IMO.  Plus it is easily accessible if I run out from Amazon or my local welding supply.

[bullitt68]

I don't see any reason to reinvent the wheel. Of course it is always good to have a alternative if needed.The Dykem layout dye that I got 1 month ago is transparent and looks the same as always. Besides being the product that AMK used and most likely still uses I am not for sure if the ink would hold up as good as the layout dye. Maybe it does but no good reason for me to change IMO.  Plus it is easily accessible if I run out from Amazon or my local welding supply.

Agreed Bob. I was messing with dye and paint and other products, but ordered the Dykems dye and there is no going back now. It's cheap and far more durable from what I can tell as it is designed to be used on metal. The other methods are good in a pinch, but for the cost my money is on the machinist dye. However it does not work very well on phosphate, but appears that AMK uses a thicker non translucent product on the phosphate fasteners. The master cylinder, steering box bolts, idler arm nuts and bolts as well as the pitman arm nut for example. They appear to be painted. Not sure what they use but it does appear to be non translucent. When I tried the machinist dye on phosphated parts it was very hard to see the dye. I used the Dykems dye on the rear leaf spin/ axel nuts, as well as third member nuts