Topic: 67 - need direction on fastener and bracket finishes

[67gta289]

Before I get to my list of detailed questions  let me start with the process that I've followed...

1. Created a detailed spreadsheet of all fasteners and brackets.  Pictures taken before removal, after removal, and after cleanup.
2. Reviewed MCA Mustang Rules for my vehicle (67 SJ fastback GTA C code) and added the required finish to the spreadsheet.  There was a fair amount of information on larger components, including some brackets, but not much at the small bracket and fastener level.  I understand that it would turn a 13 page document into a 300 page document.
3. Scrubbed the various assembly manuals and, as before, added the finish to the spreadsheet.  I understand from other forum threads that these manuals are not fool proof - but I would rather change a rusty bolt to what the manual says than going random.
4. Reviewed pictures, and more pictures.  However, even though they are supposedly worth a thousand words they themselves don't add much from a small part finish perspective.

After all that I've got a list...pared down to 30 items that I've been unable to link up to a recommended or required finish - in the attached Excel spreadsheet.  I've done my best looking for the information and now need some expert advise.  Thanks in advance, John.


***Update - the Excel file is corrupt, and I can't find the original.  It was 8 years ago!  Still not done, lol.  However, if you look through the replies all of the items were addressed***

[J_Speegle]

Looks like a fun task and helpful for your restoration - thanks for taking this on

Before I get to my list of detailed questions  let me start with the process that I've followed...........
3. Scrubbed the various assembly manuals and, as before, added the finish to the spreadsheet.  I understand from other forum threads that these manuals are not fool proof - but I would rather change a rusty bolt to what the manual says than going random.......

No reason to go random and would suggest that you double check the finishes you find in the manuals against what San Jose installed. No harm in double checking and getting it right


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

A few I believe are correct off the top of my head

- blower motor nut in eng compt - sht mtl with rubber seal - Zinc dichromate

- lower control arm - inner mounting/adjusting bolt and washer - bare/oil treated hardened steel

- rear shock washers - phosphate & oil

- rad bottom pad - pad - bare natural rubber

- brake hose front   bracket   C1SS-2082-C - Semi-gloss black

- splash shield rear - bracket- C7ZB-16256-7  - A  - Semi-gloss black

- caliper - bleeder - zinc dichromate

- strut rod - tube   3473    - Believe the nicer original ones I've seen were zinc


Not sure which pieces you are referencing in the two following

gas tank   bolt      -MFC self tap
gas tank   clamp      -   circle with dot

As for the others its too easy IMHO to start confusing one year or another plant with each other. The rest will take time but we all can work on this and check each others finding. Have plenty of 67 San Jose cars around - just have to find time to  pull and clean each item to help out

[CharlesTurner]

Here's my shot at your list.  Of course, would be good to verify with some low mileage cars from the same assembly plant and same time period.  The assembly manual matches maybe 90% of the time with what we find on original cars.  I assume you know what the finish codes are.. S2-phosphate/oil, S8-Zinc, S36-Zinc dichromate.

batt tray   S2
blower motor   Brownish Gold
brake booster   S2
brake dist block   S8
brake hose front   S8
brake hose front   SG black
brake pedal brkt   S2 or S8
caliper     S8
caliper     S36
caliper pad   
caliper pad     
fuse panel   S2 or S8
gas tank   S2 or S8
gas tank   
horn   S2
horn   S2
lower control arm   S2 or plain
lower control arm   S2 or plain
ps hose brkt @ eng mount   S8
rad bottom pad   S2
rear axle vent   S8
rear shock   S8
rear shock   S8
splash shield rear   SG black
starter relay   S8
strut rod   S8
strut rod   Strut rod is natural
tie rod coupler   Natural
upper control arm   S7 nut
volt reg   S8

[67gta289]

My first response is WOW.  A few hours later and I've got significant direction.  I want to thank everyone on this forum for making a newbie not feeling, well, like a newbie.  It takes a special talent for an expert to share information with someone that is a few years or decades behind them while not making them feel too ignorant.  You guys have it.

All I can offer at this point is to share my work when it is presentable.  From my perspective I think it would be really cool to have a database that someone can punch in some basics (model/year/plant/build date) and then have access to pictures/descriptions/part numbers/finishes...but that is the geak inside showing. 

Getting back on topic, given the overwhelming success at the first run, I'll go back to the well again on a few more fasteners...

1967 SJ
1. Strut rod cup washer (3A142)
2. Disc brake pad retaining bracket screws (small with tooth washer)
3. Upper control arm bolts - thru shock tower (perhaps originals are pressed in...mine were replaced and the bolts are not original)
4. Parking brake bracket, on firewall just below the rubber tube that sticks through the firewall.
5. Fender bracket C7ZB-16A005-6
6. Fender mounting shims "U" shaped
7. Fuel line clips at gas tank, fairly complicated "S" shape
8. Hood bumper bolt (exposed part below rubber top)
9. Hood bumper jam nut
10. Hood bumper J-nut
11. Final one (for now...) more of a question - when I removed the accelerator assembly from the firewall, the three sheet metal screws had washers (2 split lock, 1 tooth) that do not appear on the chassis assembly manual drawings.  Since they do not appear, and since they were a mismatch, I assume that they are incorrect and that no washers should go back.  Comments on this?

Thanks again, John

[CharlesTurner]

1967 SJ
1. Strut rod cup washer (3A142)  Usually phosphate
2. Disc brake pad retaining bracket screws (small with tooth washer)
3. Upper control arm bolts - thru shock tower (perhaps originals are pressed in...mine were replaced and the bolts are not original)  Phosphate or a dark heat treated steel appearance
4. Parking brake bracket, on firewall just below the rubber tube that sticks through the firewall. Natural stamped steel
5. Fender bracket C7ZB-16A005-6  SG black
6. Fender mounting shims "U" shaped  Zinc
7. Fuel line clips at gas tank, fairly complicated "S" shape  Black or Olive drab with black dipped end
8. Hood bumper bolt (exposed part below rubber top)  Usually zinc dichromate
9. Hood bumper jam nut  Phosphate or zinc
10. Hood bumper J-nut  Phosphate
11. Final one (for now...) more of a question - when I removed the accelerator assembly from the firewall, the three sheet metal screws had washers (2 split lock, 1 tooth) that do not appear on the chassis assembly manual drawings.  Since they do not appear, and since they were a mismatch, I assume that they are incorrect and that no washers should go back.  Comments on this?   Shouldn't be any washers.  Previous owner may have put them on if the screws became loose

[67gta289]

If anyone has a picture of the olive drab with black dipped end fuel line clips discussed above it would be appreciated.

Looking for further direction on proper finish for the S100 cowl bracket bolts, and the S100 power steering arm bracket nut part # 382832.

Regarding fender bolts, I've got the wrong ones - newer 1980 vintage SEMS bolts.  Most of the other part # 378178 bolts have a head mark of a double quote (" over "), semi flat washer with notches (not tooth washers).  Should these same bolts be used for the fender?  The double quote bolts were found on the spring coil covers and other non-exposed applications.  Any recommendation on where to find these - looked a few places and no luck thus far.

Thanks, John

[J_Speegle]

Here's my shot at your list. ................................
batt tray   S2
.......................
rear shock   S8
rear shock   S8
..............

Charles have you seen original or NOS (old stock) with zinc washers?

All I can offer at this point is to share my work when it is presentable.  From my perspective I think it would be really cool to have a database that someone can punch in some basics (model/year/plant/build date) and then have access to pictures/descriptions/part numbers/finishes...but that is the geak inside showing. 

The only problem we're seeing in using the internet is that many get spoiled and immediately assume everything should be available at the click of the mouse with out acknowledgement or understanding the efforts (in time and money) it took to assemble the information. Believe, like most things in life, that we value what we work for and what is given does not often get the respect or value that it deserves.  Just a thought and a comment

Getting back on topic, given the overwhelming success at the first run, I'll go back to the well again on a few more fasteners...

As we both mentioned before - don't assume any of our responses are 100% perfect until they are confirmed and backed up with real cars. - JMHO

Again some of this is going to take some time to confirm with some cars

1967 SJ
1. Strut rod cup washer (3A142)
2. Disc brake pad retaining bracket screws (small with tooth washer)
3. Upper control arm bolts - thru shock tower (perhaps originals are pressed in...mine were replaced and the bolts are not original)

Dark heat treated sheet


4. Parking brake bracket, on firewall just below the rubber tube that sticks through the firewall.

Semi-gloss black

5. Fender bracket C7ZB-16A005-6

Semi-gloss black

6. Fender mounting shims "U" shaped

Not often used - but if they used one it would have been zinc plated

7. Fuel line clips at gas tank, fairly complicated "S" shape

Draub Green oxide

As a note  not all San Jose cars used these in 67 there were a number of different systems used to retain the fuel line and sending unit wire over the year.


8. Hood bumper bolt (exposed part below rubber top)

Originals look like cadium

9. Hood bumper jam nut



10. Hood bumper J-nut


11. Final one (for now...) more of a question - when I removed the accelerator assembly from the firewall, the three sheet metal screws ....................  Comments on this?

If I recall correctly (could look through all the pictures but that's allot - maybe later)  no washers  But don't forget these would have had hard plastic (gray in color) covers over the ends (engine compartment end) once in stall

[CharlesTurner]

Here's my shot at your list. ................................
batt tray   S2
.......................
rear shock   S8
rear shock   S8
..............

Charles have you seen original or NOS (old stock) with zinc washers?

Yep, tons of them.

[J_Speegle]

Charles have you seen original or NOS (old stock) with zinc washers?

Yep, tons of them.

How many of those were 67-up?   

And guess I should clarify  - for the rear shocks.

[CharlesTurner]

How many of those were 67-up?   

And guess I should clarify  - for the rear shocks.

Hehe, let me get back to you on an exact number 

The thick shock washers I have seen, mostly 65-66, were all zinc plated.

[67gta289]

Quote from: J_Speegle on January 16, 2010, 11:06:41 PM  The only problem we're seeing in using the internet is that many get spoiled and immediately assume everything should be available at the click of the mouse with out acknowledgement or understanding the efforts (in time and money) it took to assemble the information. Believe, like most things in life, that we value what we work for and what is given does not often get the respect or value that it deserves.  Just a thought and a comment    I completely understand.  I'm sure that the process of obtaining and organizing the data that you have is time consuming and never ending.  Then someone like me is looking for an answer before my paint dries and I get it!  Other than respecting your work and implementing your recommendations, what can the "Joe user" do to help?   Charles have you seen original or NOS (old stock) with zinc washers?   Attached are pictures of mine. The cleaner one is from the top of the shock - protected from the elements.  The shocks are Autolite C7Z... and are original, so I assume the washers are too.  December 66 SJ built.  (I see the insert image option but did not figure it out, so included the pictures as attachments.  Any instructions for future posts?)  If I recall correctly (could look through all the pictures but that's allot - maybe later)  no washers  But don't forget these would have had hard plastic (gray in color) covers over the ends (engine compartment end) once in stall  The accelerator assembly screw heads are on the engine compartment side.  I've seen the gray hard plastic covers on screws that have heads on the interior with the tip sticking in the engine compartment.  Is this what you were thinking or do I need calibration?  Next I'll re-paste some questions that I asked on my last post, in case they got overlooked     If anyone has a picture of the olive drab with black dipped end fuel line clips discussed above it would be appreciated.  Looking for further direction on proper finish for the S100 cowl bracket bolts, and the S100 power steering hydraulic cylinder rod bracket (that bolts to frame) nut part # 382832.  Regarding fender bolts, I've got the wrong ones - newer 1980 vintage SEMS bolts.  Most of the other part # 378178 bolts have a head mark of a double quote (" over "), semi flat washer with notches (not tooth washers).  Should these same bolts be used for the fender?  The double quote bolts were found on the spring coil covers and other non-exposed applications.  Any recommendation on where to find these? - looked a few places and no luck thus far.  John   

***reloaded pictures***

[CharlesTurner]

Probably not the best pic, but gets you an idea of the clip finish:
http://www.early-mustang.com/charles/K_vert/11_23_09/11_23_09%20055.jpg
These are originals that were simply cleaned.  Usually some nice examples under the dash and where the wring runs behind the LH kick panel.

The finish on the cowl bolts is typically zinc dichromate.  S100 would be an indication that there was possibly a little extra treatment given to them or a spec different than the typical S36 finish.

The spring cover bolts and fender bolts typically do not match, so I would not recommend installing the same style on your fenders.  You'll need to do your homework on that one and try to find some nice SJ examples close to yours in production.

[J_Speegle]

I completely understand.  I'm sure that the process of obtaining and organizing the data that you have is time consuming and never ending.  Then someone like me is looking for an answer before my paint dries and I get it!  Other than respecting your work and implementing your recommendations, what can the "Joe user" do to help? 

Your doing exactly what you need to - looking at what you believe is original, sharing your findings and asking questions IMHO

That is what this site is all about

Attached are pictures of mine. The cleaner one is from the top of the shock - protected from the elements.  The shocks are Autolite C7Z... and are original, so I assume the washers are too.  December 66 SJ built.

Then appartently we have them both ways on rear shocks (only seen zinc on fronts) at San Jose in mid 67. May I ask - do your rear shocks have a fine or course treads and are they marked MADE IN US or MADE IN CANADA?

I've seen the gray hard plastic covers on screws that have heads on the interior with the tip sticking in the engine compartment.  Is this what you were thinking or do I need calibration?

Yes those ones - often missing and not seen on restored cars

Regarding fender bolts, I've got the wrong ones - newer 1980 vintage SEMS bolts.  Most of the other part # 378178 bolts have a head mark of a double quote (" over "), semi flat washer with notches (not tooth washers).  Should these same bolts be used for the fender?  The double quote bolts were found on the spring coil covers and other non-exposed applications.  Any recommendation on where to find these?

Looking at my pictures of mid Dec 67 San Jose cars I see the fender and spring covers matching at least half the time. All of them have the quote marked flat washers for the fenders and the same are often used on the spring covers. When they don't match ( a couple of them) its the spring covers that are the start washer style. So if you have the original spring cover ones I would beat that the fenders were matching on your car based on what I have

[TLea]

How many of those were 67-up?   

And guess I should clarify  - for the rear shocks.

Hehe, let me get back to you on an exact number 



The thick shock washers I have seen, mostly 65-66, were all zinc plated.

My vote is S2 for 67 & up

[Bob Gaines]

How many of those were 67-up?   

And guess I should clarify  - for the rear shocks.

+1 Bob

Hehe, let me get back to you on an exact number 



The thick shock washers I have seen, mostly 65-66, were all zinc plated.

My vote is S2 for 67 & up