Topic: Phosphating 101 -

[67gtasanjose]

Earlier today, I ordered this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001B800OQ?ref=ppx_pt2_mob_b_prod_image

I will report back how things turn out, if not here in this thread, my 67 GTA thread in the Members Build area.

The solution worked out good, see attached photo.
I did have some flash rusting when I followed directions for air drying after rinse.
I then re-cooked the hinge and went straight to water rinse, straight to WD-40 spray followed by air dry and re-spraying with the WD and a wipe down with a rag.

[jwc66k]

Yeah! You get a gold star.
WD-40 flushes out any built up crud (an old US Navy term) that has accumulated between the moving arms. It also acts as a lubricant after the crud is flushed, a dual purpose liquid.
Jim

[Bob Gaines]

The solution worked out good, see attached photo.
I did have some flash rusting when I followed directions for air drying after rinse.
I then re-cooked the hinge and went straight to water rinse, straight to WD-40 spray followed by air dry and re-spraying with the WD and a wipe down with a rag.

I have learned to pat dry to keep from flash rust.

[jwc66k]

I have learned to pat dry to keep from flash rust.

I don't have that problem in the warm California sun - 
Jim

[67gtasanjose]

I have learned to pat dry to keep from flash rust.

I don't have that problem in the warm California sun - 
Jim

...Meanwhile, the rest of us hobbyists are trying to accomplish such things in whatever environment they live within.

FWIW, I gave So. Calif. 21 years of my adult life and have experienced a low to no humidity environment and YES, that aspect is desirable for such projects...
 
...but out here in the Real World...we need a process that works in ANY and EVERY environment (even in a TROPICAL environment such as Florida or the likes) so I hope to hear from others who have successfully achieved positive results like what Bob has shared.

[jwc66k]

...Meanwhile, the rest of us hobbyists are trying to accomplish such things in whatever environment they live within.

In can't control the environment, and I wish you luck in finding a "universal" and "foolproof" method of preventing surface rust when the phosphate part is done. The best I could come up with is actually simple, and smelly. Have a pot of heated motor oil ready to drop the post-phosphated, post-rinsed items into. I think Charles has gotten some results this way. That's the way they did it way back when. Your only remaining problem is complaints from family and neighbors. Then there's the fire department looking for the source of the oil smell.
Jim

[67gtasanjose]

In can't control the environment, and I wish you luck in finding a "universal" and "foolproof" method of preventing surface rust when the phosphate part is done. The best I could come up with is actually simple, and smelly. Have a pot of heated motor oil ready to drop the post-phosphated, post-rinsed items into. I think Charles has gotten some results this way. That's the way they did it way back when. Your only remaining problem is complaints from family and neighbors. Then there's the fire department looking for the source of the oil smell.
Jim

...I did have some flash rusting when I followed directions for air drying after rinse.
I then re-cooked the hinge and went straight to water rinse, straight to WD-40 spray followed by air dry and re-spraying with the WD and a wipe down with a rag.

...agree, this seems to be similar to what I tried...going STRAIGHT TO WD-40 out of the rinse.

I appreciate all you have contributed to share your experiences Jim, especially starting this thread...I doubt I would have attempted this without all your input.

[jwc66k]

I appreciate all you have contributed to share your experiences Jim, especially starting this thread...I doubt I would have attempted this without all your input.

Thanks. I have to again thank a couple of MCA Gold Card Judges, Rich Ciaffredo and Bruce Cunningham, for getting me started in P&O about 25 years ago. For me, it's still a learning process as new techniques are tried all the time, some with success. Keep asking questions, keep trying new stuff. It all helps.
Jim

[kljacobs]

I appreciate all of the information that has been shared.  I have "restored" several Mustangs and Cougars in the past but not to the level I intend on my current project.  That being said the process of; cleaning, tumbling, blasting and treating/ finishing the different components can be time and money intensive.  In wanting to do it Right and only Once (understanding there is some trial and error) is there a single resource that one can go to that lists the correct finishes and coatings based on year and assembly plant?  BTW the current project is a Dearborn assembled 1968 Cougar which, from my experience, was built in a similar way as the Mustangs of the same generation.  I appreciate your help in advance!

[jwc66k]

First, welcome to the forum. In general, the assembly line worker had a "bucket" (some other container) of hardware to be used for whatever task that worker was required to do. As always, there are exceptions. That being said, you could use the "Mustang Hardware Spreadsheet 67-68" as a guideline (apologies to Captain Barbossa) to determine most of your requirements. What I'm saying is a fender bolt is a fender bolt. You can also use the measurements of an item of hardware you're holding in your hand to identify what it is and where it might go. Ford seldom had two different finishes for the same part on the assembly line.
Give that direction a try, then ask specifics.
Jim

[Bossbill]

I haven't read this whole thread, so this may be a dup.

I use the gallon size of WD-40 with its sprayer. You don't get all the air bublles you get with the spray, it has a lot more control as you can pull on the sprayer just a little or with more force to get more. It appears you get more soluble liquid on the part rather than a bunch of it going into the air.

I slather the crap out of the part and use gloves to move it around. As Jim states, it moves media blast remnants out of moving parts.

A superior delivery method, in my book. And cheaper in the long run than all of those cans.

[kljacobs]

Thank you for the reply and the welcome Jim.  I guess more of what I was trying to locate are what parts should be phoshated other than bolts?  Would it be all natural metal, unpainted parts or is there a list that exists somewhere with the component parts that received this treatment.  There is a wealth of knowledge on this site however I have not been able to locate a consolidated list of parts which may exist I just haven't located it yet.  I hope that helps.

[bullitt68]

Thank you for the reply and the welcome Jim.  I guess more of what I was trying to locate are what parts should be phoshated other than bolts?  Would it be all natural metal, unpainted parts or is there a list that exists somewhere with the component parts that received this treatment.  There is a wealth of knowledge on this site however I have not been able to locate a consolidated list of parts which may exist I just haven't located it yet.  I hope that helps.

Hi Kerry I was asking the same thing a while back, and I have since made my own list for fasteners and parts. I have not shared it yet and would like to have it doubled checked, but it is getting updated all of the time and I am using that list as the basis of my restoration. I have seen a few different lists floating around in various places and used those as a starting point and then asking lots of questions and doing my research. It is not an official list per sey, but I have cross referenced it with the MCA judging rules, input from this forum and talking to individuals with experience. I am sure it is not perfect, but it is a great start and will continue to be updated until I am confident that it is accurate and correct. I am sure that other have done the same thing. I would be great if there was one comprehensive document that was available for reference. FYI as there are differences for each year and plant etc, you need to take that into consideration and make sure that the information you are applying is on point for your application. Also I stress to not assume. I also have taken the advice of forum members suggestions to use the search function, library, MPC, Osbourne Manuals, fastener spread sheets and other resources available.

I think a cheat sheet should be available ideally. I would be willing to share mine, but it would only be applicable for my year, model, plant etc. I stress a disclaimer that it is based on my research and is in no way an endorsed comprehensive document, but rather a work in progress. I would add to that, that after my car is judged I will have a much better idea of how correct my list is, but doing everything I can in the meantime by asking questions and researching to get as close as I can to that goal. And yes it is a lot of work and requires a lot of time and dedication, something most of us go through when restoring our cars

[J_Speegle]

Thank you for the reply and the welcome Jim.  I guess more of what I was trying to locate are what parts should be phoshated other than bolts?  Would it be all natural metal, unpainted parts or is there a list that exists somewhere with the component parts that received this treatment.  There is a wealth of knowledge on this site however I have not been able to locate a consolidated list of parts which may exist I just haven't located it yet.  I hope that helps.

Welcome also to the site. You will want to focus on Dearborn details and the related years of the cars you own on many details such as finishes since over and over we continue to find differences in the finer details but yes Mustangs were built one after another with the Cougars and the same container that held the (for example) hood hinge bolts was used for both cars. The other thing to at least try and focus on it when your car was really built - available from a Marti report.

Again welcome. Lots of reading and getting comfortable ( as much as possible) with the search feature

[TonyFio]

The solution worked out good, see attached photo.
I did have some flash rusting when I followed directions for air drying after rinse.
I then re-cooked the hinge and went straight to water rinse, straight to WD-40 spray followed by air dry and re-spraying with the WD and a wipe down with a rag.

Richard,
I have most of the supplies put together to do some phosphating, including the LCW Manganese Phosphate Solution, so I'm almost ready to try my hand at this.
To get the color for those hinges, did you use the Black Dip Pre-Treatment that LCW sells, or was that just the Phosphate?
If you recall, what kind of timing did you use for the hinge vs the spring?

General question:
Can this stuff be stored long term after mixing and use and reused, or must it be left to evaporate and be disposed as mentioned?