Topic: 67 SJ undercoating and paint process

[67gta289]

Currently restoring a 1967 San Jose built fastback (Dec 66, DSO SJ also) and would like to know more about the basic assembly process in regards to undercoating, primer, and paint.  From reading through all of the postings, observing pictures, etc. I will re-state what I think I have learned:
1. Undercoating applied first, prior to primer (Note that most of my undercoating is still in place and will remain so.  I will only have to replace some pieces that have flaked off)
2. Primer (probably red oxide) applied to the whole vehicle (via a semi-automated system that engulfed the floorpan area.  Is this what caused the large drips?)
3. Body color applied including the interior floor pan and trunk area.  Looks like the engine compartment was painted to some degree as I found body color under the black paint below the hinges and on the firewall.  Also found body color on the aprons under the rear inner splash shields after they were removed.  Not sure how far forward body color was applied. 
4. Black paint applied in the engine compartment and inner fenders, although from pictures there would have been some visible red oxide on the shock towers behind the springs.

I would appreciate if anyone can add some details and/or point me in the right direction of any publications that have the gory details I'm looking for.

Thanks, John

[midlife]

Whoa!  I didn't think undercoating was applied at any factory, only by the dealers.  Therefore, primer goes first.

[CharlesTurner]

Whoa!  I didn't think undercoating was applied at any factory, only by the dealers.  Therefore, primer goes first.

Yes, correct, but sound deadener was applied in various areas throughout the cars, which most would think of as undercoating.

[midlife]

Well, Charles, even if that was true, wasn't that sound deadening applied after primer?  I'm thinking of the front fenders in particular.  I know in the trunk interior, the sound deadening was applied before top coat.

[CharlesTurner]

Well, Charles, even if that was true, wasn't that sound deadening applied after primer?  I'm thinking of the front fenders in particular.  I know in the trunk interior, the sound deadening was applied before top coat.

Not necessarily.  In some areas, sound deadener and/or seam sealer was applied directly to bare metal.

[J_Speegle]

1. Undercoating applied first, prior to primer (Note that most of my undercoating is still in place and will remain so.  I will only have to replace some pieces that have flaked off)

Sound deadener and seam sealer in areas like the trunk and the rear wheel wells were applied (this year and plant) most commonly before the primer was applied

2. Primer (probably red oxide) applied to the whole vehicle (via a semi-automated system that engulfed the floorpan area.  Is this what caused the large drips?)

Not really, The front clip area (firewall forward approx) were painted by hand (worker applied with spray gun) then the car passed over jets mounted below the rails the car was traveling on. These jets normally stopped applying the primer about 6" before the rear most section of the car was reached since often the rear cross member only received a light amount of overspray

3. Body color applied including the interior floor pan and trunk area.  Looks like the engine compartment was painted to some degree as I found body color under the black paint below the hinges and on the firewall.  Also found body color on the aprons under the rear inner splash shields after they were removed.  Not sure how far forward body color was applied. 

The body color was applied first and any applied forward of the firewall would normally be covered (this plant and year) Sometimes it appears that a new or fill in worker would apply paint further forward but this is not typical.

4. Black paint applied in the engine compartment and inner fenders, although from pictures there would have been some visible red oxide on the shock towers behind the springs.

Its a somewhat rare event to find red oxide directly behind th efront spring in the shock towers. More often than not, in my experience this is due to the paint being thinner there and with age an cleaning we often remove the top layer. The leading and rear ward surfaces in the shock tower were often very thin when it came to the application of the red oxide sealer or the black and often we find rust today on these surfaces since workers did not take to time to always fully coat these surfaces

I would appreciate if anyone can add some details and/or point me in the right direction of any publications that have the gory details I'm looking for.

Email me (rather than PM) and I think I can help with this request

[67gta289]

Thanks to all for the replies.  Jeff - I would email you as you suggested but could only find a link to PM.

I understand the recommendation to refer to the "undercoating" as "sound deadener".  In many areas, when a piece of the sound deadener is chipped off there is nice shiny steel underneath - no primer.  This includes the front wheel well area.  I don't see any evidence that the sound deadener pulled off primer.

John

[J_Speegle]

I understand the recommendation to refer to the "undercoating" as "sound deadener".  In many areas, when a piece of the sound deadener is chipped off there is nice shiny steel underneath - no primer.  This includes the front wheel well area.  I don't see any evidence that the sound deadener pulled off primer.

Will follow up.

IF the sound deadener is over the seam sealer when it pulls up as a unit it would only show bare metal in this application

[Bossbill]

Note sure where to post this, so feel free to move.

The issue of interior floor color has come up, so here is a pic of my first week of March SJ Shelby. Most of the chassis dates to approximately late January (on average). All indications from a series of other pics that this is a stock interior floor color. Red oxide is visible as a background under this batch color and on the sills.

Other owners painted the floors after this picture was taken with rattle can black.
Oh, the humanity!

As you can tell the interior is black with a Lime Gold exterior.

Of special interest to the sealer geeks is the seat panel and trannie tunnel treatment.

[Click on this pic to be taken to my Flicker account where a subsequent click will enlarge the pic]

[Bossbill]

I'm getting close to spraying the interior floor with sealer in the appropriate places.
The PO removed all the sealer everywhere when he "cleaned things up".
So I get to test out the Lord sealer gun that I borrowed from my painter. It appears my painter has every body tool known to man. He also gave me a tube of Wurth sealer as it was getting along in age.

My question is about the paint color in the above photo. We've heard batch paint is just the previous day's exterior paint all thrown into a big pot for use as the next day's interior paint. Is that the case for SJ in May too?
I can think of no other reason for this interior paint color. But how did it end up silver gray? A huge run of silver and white cars in the previous day?
Any opinions?

[GT500KR]

Bill,
   I believe what you are seeing is body color overspray over primer on the seat risers, tunnel, and floor boards. The metallic gives it a silver-ish look.

[J_Speegle]

My question is about the paint color in the above photo. We've heard batch paint is just the previous day's exterior paint all thrown into a big pot for use as the next day's interior paint. Is that the case for SJ in May too?

Not correct. At San Jose batch color wasn't used as a undercarriage coating from the firewall rearward until 69.  Some variables in the color in 67 & 68 might have come from addition of some paint in the earlier years but it appears to always have been a white so not truly a batch and it was used on the undercarriage not on other parts of the car. Different areas - different sources of paints and coatings

I can think of no other reason for this interior paint color. But how did it end up silver gray? A huge run of silver and white cars in the previous day?
Any opinions?

As already mentioned as you "mix" colors by spraying one over another in mist or overpsray form you get combinations and variations. Often an interior will have a half dozen different final looks or colors depending on where its found. Some areas well hidden will be bare steel or very lightly covered with red oxide, other areas, upper interior or hidden corners may have a light coating of red oxide with a light mist of exterior color while others may have a good coating of red oxide and or exterior color as the majority of the exterior color would settle on the flat horizontal surfaces and less on the vertical and corners since those painters didn't focus on coating the interior

[Bossbill]

As this is a 67 SJ fastback sound deadener thread I thought I'd ask about the trunk rear quarter sound deadener process itself.

[Select Pic to view larger image]


I've edited this pic from an earlier unrestored convertible pic Jeff posted and wanted to get the details right (and hopefully aid others when all is said and done). Let me know how well I got the details.

The left green line indicates where a template kept overspray from moving rearward. This is not a hard tape line, but more like the black pinch weld line.

Each of the soft pink lines indicates a higher buildup of material where the wand overlaps a previous spray.

The hard yellow red line on the right is where the spray material ends (softly).

The soft yellow line is where the outer wheelhouse appears to have been covered. No overspray here. If any is present it would be very light.

The trunk dropoff yellow line would also have no overspray.

Comments?

[J_Speegle]

Sorry this took a couple days to get to - some requests can be answered quick and easy - some take more time and concentration 

For others. This question and response focuses solely on 67 San Jose cars so if you have something different check other threads or ask

I've edited this pic from an earlier unrestored convertible pic Jeff posted and wanted to get the details right (and hopefully aid others when all is said and done). Let me know how well I got the details.

The left green line indicates where a template kept overspray from moving rearward. This is not a hard tape line, but more like the black pinch weld line.

To start out with remember that all of this is being applied by a worker leaning into the trunk from behind the car applying the sound deadener with a gun or gun with a short wand attached. In later years they applied the product onto the quarter panels before they were attache to the unibody likely saving time and effort but that's another story.

Nothing indicates the use of a tenplate. Assembly manuals remind the worker to keep the application away from the ends and edges - possibly since it does littile that close to those strong points in the panels to deadener the sound of the "oil drum" effect that some refer to.

Each of the soft pink lines indicates a higher buildup of material where the wand overlaps a previous spray.

The buildup IMHO comes from some overlap and also from the applicator being closer to that surface closer to the nozzle while the outer edge flows out further thinning the application and producing a smoother application.  In some examples this pattern produced by each pass is lessened possible when the worker stood closer to the center of the car, made the passes quicker reducing the build up and the applicator was more at a right angle to the panel

The hard yellow line on the right is where the spray material ends (softly).

You might have meant the hard red line on the right appears to be the soft edge or what the application ended forward in this example

The soft yellow line is where the outer wheelhouse appears to have been covered. No overspray here. If any is present it would be very light.

This would match what is typically seen and fall within the suggestions of the main office at Ford. You can often find some seam sealant applied on that outer wheel well at the point where the inner wheel well and the trunk floor come together as part of or extension of for a couple of inches, the end of the pass for the applicator this year

The trunk dropoff yellow line would also have no overspray.

As the gun was typically held or the tip extended close enough to the quarter panel none would end up on the trunk floor  - within the soft yellow designation unless for some reason the worker forgot to release the trigger and continued flowing as he moved or removed the applicator from that task. We see this at times on the top of the radiator support from the worker applying the firewall sealant. Some workers would hit the trigger as they pulled back and leave an approx 3-4" wide squirt of sealant across the top edge of the radiator support. 

Sound deadener would normally be applied to the quarter panel below the surface level to the trunk floor - if that use of words makes any sense

Since we can be more specific I'll post some additional examples from 67 fastbacks built around the same week or month as your car which will demonstrate the range of coverage and the amount/type of coverage.

[J_Speegle]

Some additional pictures for Bill of 67 San Jose fastbacks and Shelby's built during or closely around the first week of March 67




Found a new detail that was interesting, on a couple of fastbacks around this time period (so far) where it appears that one of the workers (one of the shifts) the passenger side application appears show where the worker first reached in and made a pass across the top and forward edge, possibly setting a limit or designating those edges first then finished filling in with the heavier vertical passes that followed.





Just what struck me when looking at these and others on examples of the passenger side