Author Topic: Testing a dash clock  (Read 10096 times)

Offline 68 S Code

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Testing a dash clock
« on: December 04, 2011, 10:13:52 PM »
I have the dash cluster out again so I figured i would try to get the clock working. Heard that a common problem is lack of lubrication and or dirt on the clock mechanism. I got the rear cover off and although it looked pretty clean i gave it a cleaning with some special stuff made for TV's which is supposed to work on these things. Now the gears move freely to set the time with the adjusting pin so things things are moving up. i also noticed this brass plate start swinging back and forth at one time for a few moments after I turned the needles. I took a 6 volt battery and touched the stud on the back and heard it go TICK. Saw the second hand move 1 second. But that was it. Wondeing if my 12 ga wires are too heavy for 6 volts? Tried two 1 1/2 volt D cells but got nothing. Any ideas out there? Read that if you install a quartz repop you may get dinged in judging because it doesnt make the ticking sound and second hand sweeps across versus ticking off the seconds. I could go repop but figued I'd try working on the original first.

Offline ruppstang

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Re: Testing a dash clock
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2011, 10:35:26 PM »
Rich the lubrication and poor contact on the rewind points are usually the problem. It is a 12 volt clock. Ground the clock body and use battery voltage. You can tell a quartz by the smooth movement. Marty

Offline 68 S Code

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Re: Testing a dash clock
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2011, 11:07:29 PM »
If 12 volts required then I've been fooling with the wrong power source. I will try it off the battery in the car. The points are spread apart at least 1/4"? Thanks. Have you ever tried filing down the points?
« Last Edit: December 04, 2011, 11:19:10 PM by 68 S Code »

Offline jwc66k

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Re: Testing a dash clock
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2011, 12:33:19 AM »
If the balance wheel is still in its bearings, the problem is usually the contacts. After 20 or 30 years the contacts get burned out. The remedy is to use a contact burnishing tool. It looks like a file with a curved end (about 1/2 inch curve is the one I use) that has about the equalivent of 600 grit sand paper. Don't use sandpaper. You need to remove the build-up on the contacts. Very seldom does the coil "open" but it could.
Here's the operation of the clock: when the contacts "make", electrical current from the car's battery (12v) actuate a coil which draws the movable arm of the contact in a semicircle away from the fixed contact. A small coil spring pulls the arm back down, delayed by a rachet mechinism controlled by the balance wheel. That's what you see spinning first right then left. It should take about 40 to 45 seconds to cycle the contacts back to start all over again. A series of gears take the motion and move the second, minute and hour hands. If you lift the movable arm up you can see the operation if everything else is working good.
Jim   
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Offline 68 S Code

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Re: Testing a dash clock
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2011, 01:23:30 AM »
im you used a lot of names fo components that Im not really familiar with. I'll post a pic tomorrow and we can  go from there. You seem to have the parts and operation down so lets see what i can do with your help.

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: Testing a dash clock
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2011, 11:53:36 AM »
If the balance wheel is still in its bearings, the problem is usually the contacts. After 20 or 30 years the contacts get burned out. The remedy is to use a contact burnishing tool. It looks like a file with a curved end (about 1/2 inch curve is the one I use) that has about the equalivent of 600 grit sand paper. Don't use sandpaper. You need to remove the build-up on the contacts. Very seldom does the coil "open" but it could.
Here's the operation of the clock: when the contacts "make", electrical current from the car's battery (12v) actuate a coil which draws the movable arm of the contact in a semicircle away from the fixed contact. A small coil spring pulls the arm back down, delayed by a rachet mechinism controlled by the balance wheel. That's what you see spinning first right then left. It should take about 40 to 45 seconds to cycle the contacts back to start all over again. A series of gears take the motion and move the second, minute and hour hands. If you lift the movable arm up you can see the operation if everything else is working good.
Jim
+1 . The most prevalent cause of the contacts to burn up or to get corrosion is when the battery gets low and the contacts which open and close with rewinding cycle every couple of minutes sit and arc because of too little of voltage causing a insulating barrier to develop. Disconnecting the battery doesn't harm them but letting your battery run down besides harming the battery harms the clock mechanism. Bob
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline jwc66k

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Re: Testing a dash clock
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2011, 12:29:15 PM »
If you want to do some homework, try - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_watch
Jim
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Offline 70cj428

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Re: Testing a dash clock
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2011, 05:09:49 PM »
Hi s code, Your clock is basically a wind up clock, that winds itself up when the two contacts close. If you carefully lift the movable contact away from the fixed contact you will in a sense wind the clock and it should run without power until the two contacts come together again. If it wont run, I'd strongly suggest taking it to a professional clockmaker and have it checked out. I've repaired (or converted) hundreds of these and if they won't run, once wound, they usually just need cleaning and oiling. (very seldom do they wear out, as it's usually burned contacts or a burnt up coil that stops them from winding) as mentioned above, what usually kills the clocks is letting the battery in the car die to the point where the coil can't generate enough of an impulse to wind the clock and open the contacts. The contacts will will stay closed and either arc and burn up the contacts or cause the winding coil to stay energized, heating up and burning up the coil.
           It sounds like the coil in your clock is ok (the tick you heard when you connected voltage to the clock was the clock trying to wind) So if you want to try and fix it yourself get some clock oil from a local shop, and carefully put a drop of oil at the end of each gear where the arbor meets the plate, up to and including the balance wheel (the wheel that rocks back and forth), manually lift the movable contact and see if the clock runs. Be really careful of the small, coiled spring mounted above the balance, if you bend the spring so it touches itself or anything else, or get any oil on the spring, the clock will run fast or not at all. If the clock runs, then clean the contacts and see if it keeps time..   WARNING.... DON'T spray any lubricant (WD40, CRC, ect on) the movement as you'll get oil on everything and you'll have to have the clock cleaned all over again.  Parts are not available for the clock so if the coil or the contacts are burned, you'll have to find another, better clock to start with.    If it were me, I'd buy a conversion kit from ISI http://clocksandgauges.com/ if your clock was made by Borg (check the back of the clock) or have them convert it to quartz if it was made by another manufacturer (DIY kits are not available for other manufacturers). It will keep way better time than the old movt, and won't burn up again.  If you want your original clock restored (not quarts) they can do that too. They manufacture the kits that most of the clock guys use to restore the clocks and have a huge supply of NOS clocks and parts. Keep in mind that an NOS clock will burn up just as fast if you let your battery die..

Just my professional opinion.....    John
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 05:18:18 PM by 70cj428 »

Offline 68 S Code

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Re: Testing a dash clock
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2011, 07:02:06 PM »
The guys you mentioned are about an hour away. I will call them thanks.

Offline 68 S Code

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Re: Testing a dash clock
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2011, 09:59:08 PM »
Oh oh. I did a little reading last friday about a guy who rebuilt some clocks and he mentioned taking off the back cover and spraying down the internals with a Radio Shack Cleaner and Lubricant made for Electro Mechanical Devices-especially drum type TV tuners. Lubricates contacts and controls. So I did just that.....before posting this thread. Now it seems that all I wanted to do was put a drop on some of the gears. Hit it pretty well with this pressurized spray. The gears for adjusting the time now move freely without sticking. I did get the tick with the 6 volt battery after the spraying was done. Haven't tried Marty's suggestion of 12 v power source yet. Hope I didn't overdo it. Here are some pics of what I got. As you can see the contacts are spread apart right now. Guessing close to 1/4" but maybe less. Once applying power the contacts should snap shut? Immediately or after 30 seconds?
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 10:02:30 PM by 68 S Code »

Offline 68 S Code

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Re: Testing a dash clock
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2011, 10:05:05 PM »
At one point after spraying and adjusting the needles I thought I noticed the copper looking wheel in the second pictures oscillating back and forth.

Offline jwc66k

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Re: Testing a dash clock
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2011, 12:31:05 AM »
It takes about 40 to 50 seconds to complete one relay-contact cycle.
Jim
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Offline rockhouse66

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Re: Testing a dash clock
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2011, 08:45:11 AM »
If the contacts are spread apart, the clock should be running.  At this point, you might as well keep spraying!  :D
Jim
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Offline 68 S Code

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Re: Testing a dash clock
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2011, 10:41:59 AM »
Well maybe its got enough oil (OVER EVERYTHING REGRETFULLY) so I will give it a go with battery power today. I presume I cant hurt anything at this point.

Offline rockhouse66

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Re: Testing a dash clock
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2011, 12:36:34 PM »
What I am trying to say is that if you have open contacts and the clock isn't running, there is some mechanical problem that hooking it to a battery won't "fix".  The 12V flows when the contacts are closed, which activates the solenoid (or is it really a coil?) and winds the mechanism, throwing the contacts apart.  As the spring winds down, the contacts get closer together until they touch again, current flows, and the process starts over.  With the contacts apart (as you reported), connecting it to 12V won't do anything because the circuit is open.  It is only when the contacts/points are touching that the coil/solenoid is energized.
Jim
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