Topic: 67 Tilt Steering Wheel/Column Discussion

[J_Speegle]

Jeff, my area of focus is on pages 12-14 of the Library article as it appears in the Library....................
This also make sense of the image in the Chassis assembly manual, top and center of page 7, that shows a "T" inside of the dash between the A/C vacuum source and the Tilt-Away column.

~anybody at all following me yet?

Ok I'm with you. Sorry it took a day or so to get the time to sit and read what you wrote clearly, focusing on what you were describing. Number of twist and turns in the subject related to when - like a good novel

BTW what is the date on the page from the assembly manual? That would give us a point in time related to that practice or at least direction from Ford.

Glad I finally posted those instructions and they have help the research

Did I miss or have you guys already gone over the long oval to tomato can to in the fender well can change over points? Don't want to confuse the subject further - just trying to figure out if I missed something


Will review the rest of your earlier post later - one bite at a time

[67gtasanjose]

BTW what is the date on the page from the assembly manual? That would give us a point in time related to that practice or at least direction from Ford.

I see no date on page 7 (for 289 engines)

(I might also have included pages 6-8 for the different engines, all 3 pages have the "T" located inside of the dash area. Page 6 is for 200 6 cylinders, 7 for 289 engines and page 8 is for the 390 engines)

ALL 3 pages (read as all 3 engine displacement options) have sketches of the OBLONG canister (which we know became abolished in later production) so it would look as these images were of the EARLY design.


Richard

[67gtasanjose]

I found 7F01C1219187, Dec 3 scheduled build, which could be classified as early, with only the oblong tank.  This was a 289-2V, AC, tilt car that was owned by a Ford engineer and parked in 1987.  I've included pictures before - but had a FoMoCo belt for the AC and was largely untouched.  There was no tank on the battery tray, and there were no holes where a tank would have been.  There was a single vacuum line feed into the dash area, with a tee that split to the AC and tilt loads.  To me that is enough evidence that not all cars equipped with tilt had the dedicated canister mounted on the battery tray.  As to exact change over dates, variations between plants, etc. that is the hard part to nail down.

I woke this thread up to do two things. FIRST: John, when you get a chance, I would like to see a close up with measurements provided of this factory "T" if you have it.
2nd, to link readers that may be working on their 67 Tilt column to another recent thread I began with restoration work of the column itself. http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=15852.msg99411#msg99411

[67gtasanjose]

I woke this thread up to do two things. FIRST: John, when you get a chance, I would like to see a close up with measurements provided of this factory "T" if you have it.
2nd, to link readers that may be working on their 67 Tilt column to another recent thread I began with restoration work of the column itself. http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=15852.msg99411#msg99411

bump

[67gta289]

Yikes, I missed it by three years!  Sorry about that chief.

These are hard buggers to find.

[67gta289]

For bonus points, I do have some observations on the original hoses.

1. The exterior is smooth in appearance and touch

2. I do see that there was a green stripe, you should be able to see evidence in the pics.

3. There is a hunk of tape, or label on one end of the hose.  Actually both hoses, including the shorty between the solenoid and vacuum motor.  Both of mine are discolored.

4. In my tilt/AC application, the large diameter (ID and OD) hose is attached to the TEE in the previous post.  From here it attaches to the source, from the in line check valve under the hood, and continuing to the A/C-heater control panel.  The two smaller diameter lines are black (no stripe).  For A/C applications the green stripe served another purpose.

[67gtasanjose]

Yikes, I missed it by three years!  Sorry about that chief.

These are hard buggers to find.

Thank you MUCH for your pictures of the T itself (with dimensions).  I know you are a busy guy so I didn't want to seem impatient but I finally caved in and decided I needed to "bump" the thread. 

I would like to re-visit the evidence that some EARLY AC cars indeed had a "T" inside the car for the Tilt-Away column, (as the Osborn Assembly Manuals indicated). I did have another member years ago confirm this, he also had a Dearborn, early December build like you found.

Since the example you found (7F01C1219187) is a Dearborn example and the one other member who reported to me privately in 2014 also was Dearborn, we cannot rule in that other plants followed the same practice nor that they (all) switched over to the "Below the Battery, attached to the battery tray" practice on/around the same (estimated) December date. We can see a pattern that at least in Dearborn, the switch-over occurred after the middle of December. Maybe other AC cars with Tilt Column examples will surface, hopefully with December, January or February build dates and with that information, we can narrow the transition to the extra reservoir down. If we have examples built during the Sringtime months with the reservoir mounted to the battery tray, yet another bonus. I believe it would be safe to say that eventually, Ford punched holes into the battery tray support bracket (at least for a while), to accommodate the battery tray reservoir so even pictures that include those "holes" would be useful, if accompanied by build dates.

For now, I feel it would safe to ESTIMATE that AC cars w/tilt-away built before Mid-December SHOULD NOT likely have the reservoir under the battery UNLESS they have a Dealer-Installed or Factory Installed Cruise Control. If they have Cruise or the reservoir added, the holes in the brace would have been DRILLED by an installer (not punched out by the metal-stamping plant).

I would say the under-the-battery reservoir would likely have been use from on or around the beginning of the year, through about April of 67 (estimated dates) whenever the latest version of reservoir(s) were introduced that mounted inside/under the fender well (under the apron-mounted reservoirs). It would also be a curious detail to check any original battery tray supports for any holes found to secure such a reservoir. (were those holes "drilled" or were the holes "punched"?)

I will look into the Assembly Manuals for dates on the pages and try to trim down the time-frames of the change-over dates. I hope other input can be collected for data on this detail. I really hope the results of these many pages can be assembled, sorted and confirmed to draw up perhaps a conclusive document, maybe an article that we can use to assist others who wish to return their example to the best-knowledge available to date.

Please, if you have more data points to add to the thread, or even if you wish to remain anonymous...submit any data points to me in private messaging. Photos are a bonus. Photos of ORIGINAL hoses still in place, EXTRA bonus points! (Thanks again John!) Also, If you need my email address or if easier to send via smart-phone, PM me and I will give contact info to you.

Thanks everyone who has contributed. I feel we have made "Marked Progress" so far on the hose routing and reservoirs at least. I am hoping to address yet another detail to these 67 Tilt Columns too (some examples have been found to have the actuator solenoid mounted to the column, not to a bracket near the ignition switch) but for now, I'd like to try and nail down just the Reservoir variances, Hoses, "T's" and check valves used on these 67 cars. Hopefully, more to come!

[67GTAConvt]

I have been working on installing factory Speed control on my early build 67 (December 66) with factory air and tilt.  The car has the big, oblong tank and a check valve with a single fitting, there is no can under the battery.  The solenoid for the tilt was mounted under the dash in the same place as the pictures in the previous posts.  The car is also a GTA, so it had the fog light switch next to the solenoid.

However, since I'm installing Speed control, I am adding the tank to the battery tray per the installation instructions.  The instructions show that the Curtis Wright servo unit mounts to the firewall between the braces, so the factory wouldn't have either moved the oblong tank or used the smaller tank in the fender well.

I was thinking that I would have to use a check valve with two outlets, but a previous poster indicated that the tilt accessory tank has a check valve built into it?  The installation instructions aren't really clear on which check valve to use.  I reasoned that there should be a check valve for each reserve tank, so it makes sense to use the one with the double outlets.

I am also installing tilt on my brother's mid year 67 that has AC.  He has the small can mounted in the fender well.  Since it is mid year, I am installing a can under the battery tray for the tilt, per the vacuum guide.  I'm also now wondering if we should use the two outlet check valve.

I have several of (what I believe are) the correct tilt cans.  How would you verify that they have a check valve in them?  Would it hurt to have both the double outlet check valve AND a can with the check valve? 

[67GTAConvt]

So, I did a little research last night....

I bought a bleeder tool for brakes and hooked it up to my cans and check valves so I could test the vacuum.   I found that my double nozzle check valve leaked!! I plugged the two outlets and put the vacuum on the inlet and it leaked out VERY quickly.  That bugs me, I'm wondering if I can flush the check valve or maybe add some solder around the edges to seal it.  I don't know what the inside of the valve looks like, so I may just tear mine apart to see what may be affecting it.

Then I went on to the Tilt can that would install under the battery.  It held a good vacuum (14lbs over night!), but the two nozzles acted differently.  When I put suction on the center one and my finger on the outer one, it would slowly release when I took my finger off.  When I did the opposite and released the pressure on the center one, it quickly discharged.  That makes me think that the center one would lead to the tilt solenoid and that the outer one would lead to the manifold.

But, I'm thinking that the one from the manifold (that leaks slowly) should not leak at all.  That's the whole point of a check valve, right?

[67GTAConvt]

Oh, and one more thing...

I have one stock bracket to mount the can to the battery tray strut, but... I need two since I'm doing my brother's car as well.  I had an extra accessory bracket--the one for all the relays.  I used that bracket to make a VERY close copy of the stock one.  It is the same gauge metal and about the perfect size.  I did have to add a bend to it, but it is so close!  There is a dimple on the stock one at the bends that I couldn't reproduce, but you can't tell the difference.

Just sayin'. 

[67gtasanjose]

So, I did a little research last night....

I bought a bleeder tool for brakes and hooked it up to my cans and check valves so I could test the vacuum.   I found that my double nozzle check valve leaked!! I plugged the two outlets and put the vacuum on the inlet and it leaked out VERY quickly.  That bugs me, I'm wondering if I can flush the check valve or maybe add some solder around the edges to seal it.  I don't know what the inside of the valve looks like, so I may just tear mine apart to see what may be affecting it.

Then I went on to the Tilt can that would install under the battery.  It held a good vacuum (14lbs over night!), but the two nozzles acted differently.  When I put suction on the center one and my finger on the outer one, it would slowly release when I took my finger off.  When I did the opposite and released the pressure on the center one, it quickly discharged.  That makes me think that the center one would lead to the tilt solenoid and that the outer one would lead to the manifold.

But, I'm thinking that the one from the manifold (that leaks slowly) should not leak at all.  That's the whole point of a check valve, right?

Yes, at times you can save a check valve by flushing them. I've used water and air. Other times, this will not help, get another and try again.
Regarding the can under the battery installation, I believe once you research, considering you are adding the speed control, the build date you are doing the work for and so on, that the under battery canister mounted to the battery brace would have only TWO hoses going to it. Later, 68 systems using the two hoses, mounted under the battery but on the tire-side of the apron.

*edited errors

[MJP67]

I have a 67 coupe with air that is pretty original with the exception of a white vinyl top that is not on the build sheet.  I am adding a tilt/tilt away to make it more drivable for my wife as it was her 50th birthday present.  The car was built in NJ on 13 July 67.  From what I am reading here, I should be adding a second canister to the battery tray.  I see WCCC has the brackets to mount the canister, but am I correct in the searches I have done that the side mount canisters are very rare and nobody reproduces them?  I could make a bracket, but my sheet metal skills don't equal my machining skills.  Does anyone know of a source for the crimped bracket that goes on the canister or if someone reproduces these?  I think I know the answer, but then again I am really just getting started and could be missing the obvious.  (which I'm quite skilled at some times.). And while I'm here, I would like to express my appreciation to those that take the time to add to these discussions, as they are an invaluable resource for us newbies who are just getting started.

[Coralsnake]

The 1967 tilt system does not use a canister by the battery. That is the 1968 system.

[Bob Gaines]

The 1967 tilt system does not use a canister by the battery. That is the 1968 system.

The 67 tilt system has a hole pattern on the 67 unique battery tray to mount the tilt vacuum canister there. I believe you are thinking of the 68 canister mounted in the apron under the battery tray .

[MJP67]

Yes, at times you can save a check valve by flushing them. I've used water and air. Other times, this will not help, get another and try again.
Regarding the can under the battery installation, I believe once you research, considering you are adding the speed control, the build date you are doing the work for and so on, that the under battery canister mounted to the battery brace would have only ONE hose going to it, not 2. Later 67 systems using the two hoses, mounted under the battery but on the tire-side of the apron, would use the two hose canister.

As I posted earlier today, I am installing a tilt in my 13 July 67 coupe, which I would assume would be one of the later 67 systems?  I have factory air with the two hose through apron canister under the hinge.  You mention that the later 67's used a canister under the battery but on the tire side of the apron.  Is that only applicable to air, tilt, AND speed control, with the speed control using the lower canister?