Topic: 67 Tilt Steering Wheel/Column Discussion

[Hipo giddyup]

 This is a duplicate set-up of my car's tilt canister and hose. I too can take a pic of the rear PS firewall for folks, inside and out. (will post later tonight). I would think it is safe to say that at least at Metuchen between the time period of Mid Nov. to Dec. 1966 they (Ford), or one worker, looks to have been installing the tilt set-up this way.. Any other tilt pics during this period would be great help.. 

[ruppstang]

This is my take on it. I believe that if the car did not have AC the tilt canister was mounted on the RH rear apron where the AC canister went. I have been waiting to confirm that the mounting studs on the larger early AC canister have the same spacing as the tilt canister that mounted under the battery tray on a bracket. If the spacing is the same it would have made it very easy for the workers to change the locations. I have a Ford vacuum service manual that clearly show the tilt canister mounted on the RH rear apron. I also have Ford service instructions that state that no other items may be attached to the vacuum canisters so I find it unlikely that the factory would have ran the AC and tilt on the same can. When I can get access to the car that has the tilt canister mounted under the battery I will confirm whether or not the stud spacing is the same.
Marty

[67gtasanjose]

... I have been waiting to confirm that the mounting studs on the larger early AC canister have the same spacing as the tilt canister that mounted under the battery tray on a bracket.
... When I can get access to the car that has the tilt canister mounted under the battery I will confirm whether or not the stud spacing is the same.
Marty

I can compare the NOS canister that looks just as the ones recently pictured above and also pictured in your (Marty's) previous posts with my factory oblong canister.

I also have Ford service instructions that state that no other items may be attached to the vacuum canisters so I find it unlikely that the factory would have ran the AC and tilt on the same can.
Marty

This is the one major reason why I figure I need to aquire all the pieces to restore the 2nd canister to my AC equipped car, even if some AC cars may have been built without the two canisters, I believe the AC cars with tilt-away were all intended to have both canisters.

While not at all disputing these "Ford service instruction" reference, is it possible this document was generated as a result of improper installations on the assembly line?

Again...I do not oppose anything previously stated by anyone, I look at this thread (and any other thread about anomalies for that matter) as a means of having a civil debate, for the sole purpose to establish a more in depth understanding any such topic. It intrigues me how many things (especially for the 67 model year) differ from one example to another, more so when some of these examples are so close together in build data.

Richard
 

[67gta289]

Two cans costs more in both material and time.  Just doesn't make sense.  But that doesn't mean it was never done.

The large oblong can required an external inline vacuum check valve.  The tilt only coffee can style had a built in check valve.  Were there two separate independent vacuum source lines back to the intake manifold?  Was there a tee?  If a tee, was it on the suction or tank side of the inline check valve?  If on the tank side the tilt can would siphon off the oblong can with the engine off.

One can is so much simpler, and at less cost.

Has anyone actually seen the two can (tucan?) version?

[ruppstang]

The 67 that I posted the picture of the canister under the battery also has the AC can under the RH hinge.

[J_Speegle]

Has anyone actually seen the two can (tucan?) version?

Are you counting the ones with the can in the passenger side wheel well also?

But yes have seen cars with AC and Tilt with both cans/tanks

[67gtasanjose]

The 67 that I posted the picture of the canister under the battery also has the AC can under the RH hinge.

Marty, on this "two-can" example, you have posted the picture of, do you recall how the vacuum hoses were all routed?

I ask this while looking at the chassis assembly manual for the steering column as reference. (pages 46 & 47 and also pages 6 thru 8 )

I would assume they connect individually to the manifold, but since both style canister routing's are not on the same pages in the manual, it gets confusing. For example, NOTICE that at the top of page 6,7 or 8 of the assembly manual (choose according to engine size), at the center of the page, there is a "T" 3E563 that seems to show to go to the "TILT SWING COLUMN" and that "T" looks to be INSIDE the cowl, under the dash, on the supply hose coming from the oblong reservoir.    

This adds to the confusion because the notes on page 46 and 47 (bottom left of page) state what has previously been mentioned, "VACUUM LINES MUST NOT BE TAPPED INTO FOR OTHER USES".

I believe that I should plan on doing this correctly, that is with both cans. It would be nice to set it up correctly the FIRST time and not need to redo it.

Besides the green with white hoses that seem to not be reproduced just yet, it looks like I would need the following:

* one (1) 3E649 bracket
* two (2) 55981-S2 screw bolts (to battery tray) <AMK SELLS these in multi-packs>
* two (2) 34657-S2 nuts, resevoir to bracket <AMK doesn't seem to handle these, LOCATED>
* two (2) 3A762 hose clips (that clip to the right strut support ) <AMK doesn't seem to handle these, HELP WANTED>
* one (1) 378569-S hose clip (that holds hoses to the apron, below battery) <AMK doesn't seem to handle these, HELP WANTED>
* one (1) 19A563 check valve, single port in, single port out

PLEASE, double check the assembly manuals and check my information and part numbers. It might help to get AMK or complete OEM part numbers too if anyone can help. I believe I already have the hose hanger on the cowl, 357064-S and the resevoir 3E547, so the search is ON for these other items.


Previously, my tilt was operated using the oblong AC canister, but I made all the hose connections several years back to get the tilt-away functioning. (it had been disconnected by P.O. for vacuum leaks) At that time, I was only after "function", not seeking the likes of "concours" in presentation. Nothing was as it should be since I had no information on this system or other examples as reference. Hence all these questions. I know how to make it "work", I am after a correct installation for my time period at San Jose, for a car with a 289 engine and has AC.

One more question, Does anybody know if the hose clip at the battery is the same or similar to the clips used for the wiring harness in that same area? A detailed picture of an unmolested might help some here.

Richard

[Hipo giddyup]

""The large oblong can required an external in line vacuum check valve.  The tilt only coffee can style had a built in check valve.  Were there two separate independent vacuum source lines back to the intake manifold?  Was there a tee?  If a tee, was it on the suction or tank side of the in line check valve?  If on the tank side the tilt can would siphon off the oblong can with the engine off.""

Although not the SJ example your after, my Nov. 66' Metuchen car has a dual port brass fitting off of the back of the intake where as the bottom port has always been blocked off. The top port is what feeds the canister on this car for tilt-away use.

""Are you counting the ones with the can in the passenger side wheel well also?""

I believe this version was for 68' and up?, where the canister was outside in the wheel opening under the fender. Undercoated too.?   

[67gtasanjose]

""The large oblong can required an external in line vacuum check valve.  The tilt only coffee can style had a built in check valve.  .""

Yes, I have the large oblong canister, but my (incorrect as I understand) check valve has 3 connector nipples, not only two as shown in the assembly manual.

""  Were there two separate independent vacuum source lines back to the intake manifold?  Was there a tee?  If a tee, was it on the suction or tank side of the in line check valve?  .""

Yes, I suspect there are supposed to be two sources on AC equipped cars, one to each canister, back to the manifold, but I am looking for verification on this suspicion.

The "T" I see in the assembly manual seems to be under the dash, it claims it to go to the TILT AWAY column on the tank reservoir side.

Although not the SJ example your after, my Nov. 66' Metuchen car has a dual port brass fitting off of the back of the intake where as the bottom port has always been blocked off. The top port is what feeds the canister on this car for tilt-away use.

Yes, I have that fitting too and it has a 2nd source available that presently was not used when I took the car apart. The question might best be answered with a SJ example with tilt AND Air, but I imagine both hoses go direct to the manifold.

""Are you counting the ones with the can in the passenger side wheel well also?""

I believe this version was for 68' and up?, where the canister was outside in the wheel opening under the fender. Undercoated too.?   

No, I am not entering into discussion about 68 models that have been reported as having them on the underside of the wheel well.


I am hoping a photo or information that matches what Marty's example with the two cans, oblong one for the AC AND has the under battery one too for the Tilt-away option.

I am seeking some of the parts that are mentioned in the assembly manual at this time in the "Parts Wanted" section that I would need to help set up mine as is shows in those manuals. It might help to confirm my shopping list against original examples with similar build sheet options and similar assembly data such as plant and time of build.

Richard

[67gtasanjose]

This is my take on it. I believe that if the car did not have AC the tilt canister was mounted on the RH rear apron where the AC canister went. I have been waiting to confirm that the mounting studs on the larger early AC canister have the same spacing as the tilt canister that mounted under the battery tray on a bracket. If the spacing is the same it would have made it very easy for the workers to change the locations. I have a Ford vacuum service manual that clearly show the tilt canister mounted on the RH rear apron. I also have Ford service instructions that state that no other items may be attached to the vacuum canisters so I find it unlikely that the factory would have ran the AC and tilt on the same can. When I can get access to the car that has the tilt canister mounted under the battery I will confirm whether or not the stud spacing is the same.
Marty

I just matched up the spacing on the two styles of '67 canisters (oblong and round with built-in valve)...They measure exactly the same, center to center of the studs, though they do have different stud sizes. The studs on the oblong canisters are 5/16" fine pitch, the studs on the other canister with the built-in check valve are 1/4" coarse thread. If anybody wants a picture....ask

Marty is correct in his analysis for the workers to simply change locations on Non-AC cars to over by the hinge.

I have to say, this thread has been very educational!

Richard

[J_Speegle]

No, I am not entering into discussion about 68 models that have been reported as having them on the underside of the wheel well.

I've got a couple of 67's built at Dearborn with the can in the wheelwell. Cougars but at the moment don't believe that they used different/special vacuum cans on those and not on the Mustangs being built at the same time.



Was mentioned way back in post #14  so apparently we have three versions of the rear vacuum can



Sorry hoses long gone

[ruppstang]

I just matched up the spacing on the two styles of '67 canisters (oblong and round with built-in valve)...They measure exactly the same, center to center of the studs, though they do have different stud sizes. The studs on the oblong canisters are 5/16" fine pitch, the studs on the other canister with the built-in check valve are 1/4" coarse thread. If anybody wants a picture....ask

Marty is correct in his analysis for the workers to simply change locations on Non-AC cars to over by the hinge.

I have to say, this thread has been very educational!

Richard

Yah! That is what I hoped we would find. It makes sense.
Marty

[67gtasanjose]

I've got a couple of 67's built at Dearborn with the can in the wheelwell. Cougars but at the moment don't believe that they used different/special vacuum cans on those and not on the Mustangs being built at the same time.



Was mentioned way back in post #14  so apparently we have three versions of the rear vacuum can



Sorry hoses long gone

Well, that one under the battery looks like "the right stuff" as used on a 67 Mustang Tilt-away but I'm not sure bringing any Cougar examples into the mix is a great idea. I am not a Cougar specialist, (maybe Scott can chime in here) but I recall that the Cougar headlamp system required a separate canister and if memory serves, it was located in the LH wheel well area. Also, if memory serves, 68 Cougars were somewhat different than 67 Cougars and changeover dates occurred in the Cougar family very similar to the Mustang.

I say what I just wrote to try and stay focused only on 67 MUSTANG Tilt-Away systems. (O.P's title of the thread) Certainly the Cougars vacuum routing, check valve(s) would differ slightly from Mustang because of the headlamp system alone. Add all the running changes going into the 68 model year and the waters would get muddied here easily. The  67 Mustang Assembly manual pictures the Cougar underhood routing of hoses on the engine(s) so that helps filter the waters some.

I believe we have determined much about these systems so far in this thread, yet more needs to be learned, primary in hose routing for the various "correct" installations based on the complete build data of each example. (e.g., with A/C or w/o, SJ, Dearborn, NJ built and assembly date)

The assembly manuals so far seem to be the best guide as a general overview of the hose routing but having the anomalies that have been discussed so far still leaves an unanswered question. edited What is pictured, that looks to be under the dash as a  vacuum "T" in the assembly manual for the 67 Mustang? The manual states it goes to the Tilt-Away column, yet nobody seems to have an example or information on this anomaly.

Now we just need the folks like those at NPD or Virginia Classic to help oil the wheels and get some of these long-gone from available parts back into production, parts like the hoses, check valves, canisters. ....please....stop me, I'm dreaming! I forgot how rare this option is! lol!

Richard

[ruppstang]

My next question is when did the change over to the AC canister that mounted through the apron occur and if that car had a tilt how was that canister mounted?
As before on a bracket under the battery or like the 68s under the battery and through the apron?
Marty

[67gtasanjose]

REPRODUCTION Resevoirs ARE out there.

Here is one I saw on eBay from Mustangs Unlimited: It is the LATE 67, inside the inner fender style.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-FORD-MUSTANG-TILT-AWAY-STEERING-VACUUM-CANISTER-/380674125719?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item58a1f22f97&vxp=mtr

I imagine that since it looks to have just one hose nipple, there would have to be a "T" in the system or at least a 3-nipple check valve if the canister doesn't have the check valve built in (as other designs do)

Richard