Topic: Underneath Coating - 65 San Jose

[ChrisV289]

I have a 65 fastback built at San Jose on 10/29/64 with a DSO of Los Angeles.  I was under the car today and noticed that most of the underneath is black.  Towards the front the car (frame rail where the 64 1/2 horns would sit) I scraped some of the black off and could see red oxide as well as on the differential pumpkin.  But when I scraped inside the drive shaft and the seats I didn't see any red oxide....Is this normal?  I know the car was repainted prior to 1992 but I don't believe any body work was done.


Thanks,
Chris

[J_Speegle]

I have a 65 fastback built at San Jose on 10/29/64 with a DSO of Los Angeles.  I was under the car today and noticed that most of the underneath is black.  Towards the front the car (frame rail where the 64 1/2 horns would sit) I scraped some of the black off and could see red oxide as well as on the differential pumpkin.  But when I scraped inside the drive shaft and the seats I didn't see any red oxide....Is this normal?  I know the car was repainted prior to 1992 but I don't believe any body work was done.

Seems to be the week to discuss mid 65 San Jose production color application under the car

So you have a car with a 29K on the door tag, built at San Jose.  That should make the VIN right around 5R09K153000 or so, looking at other cars with that projected build date

A few questions if I might

1- are the factory drips still present on the floor pan ribs?

2- have you cleaned the surface down to the bare metal in those areas you are examining?

Here is one that I shot a while back. Black paint all along the trans tunnel, factory drips were present.





What we discovered after cutting through a couple of the drips and cleaning the black paint away. The tone and tint matches other examples from about the same production period

[ChrisV289]

Jeff,

Yes, the beginning of my VIN is 5R09A152XXXX. I took a couple of shots tonight as well as poked a few chips and found bare metal underneath.  I also shot some of the front near the engine and the red oxide.  So did they not coat the whole underneath with red oxide?

Behind Front seat near rear:




Tunnel:


Front of car near engine:

[J_Speegle]

Typical practice, as we understand it, is that a worker applied the red oxide to the firewall forward section of the uni-body and then the car ran through another station where it passed over a set of jets mounted below the car. These jets delivered a heavy coat of undercarriage color starting just behind the firewall surface to just before the rear of the car. If the jets were used to apply all of the undercarriage color (and to all the ends) the overspray would have caused additional work as it rained down on the top of the engine compartment and the rest of the car.

As for your particular car I'm not sure if we can tell what your car originally had on the undercarriage since it appears that it may have been completely repainted. Though its interesting that the restorer choose to use black on the floor pan rather than the common red oxide. This could be explained by when the car was restored (in the 70's and early 80's black was often used) or if restored in the north eastern part of the country the restorer could have used a Dearborn (or their common experiences with the local cars) to shade his choice

What gave it away is the area where the uni-body to the dolly during paint has a full coat of red oxide over the surface. So at least the front has been repainted under the car.

The next task in the investigation would get me to clean off the rear dolly mark locations and see if there is black paint over those locations also.

Hope this helps

[ChrisV289]

Jeff,

I know the car stayed pretty much in California from 1964 until we bought it in 1992 from the second owner.  I don't believe they did a full restoration, I think just a repaint on the exterior.  I can see the original coat of honey gold below the rocker panel where the newer coat has chipped off.  I think I remember the interior is original except the front seats were recovered (rotation number still written on fuse box).  I could be wrong, but unfortunately both the first and second owner have passed on.  Where would the rear dolly mark locations be?  I could probably check on those tomorrow...

[J_Speegle]

I know the car stayed pretty much in California from 1964 until we bought it in 1992 from the second owner.  I don't believe they did a full restoration, I think just a repaint on the exterior.  .......................

Well at least we know they did a "little" more than just paint the exterior. Here is a drawing to point out the locations of the eight dolly locations. Each should be bare (not painted) metal on the frame sections. Have fun

[thefordshow]

Not to confuse the subject, but had a chance to look at a Jan 11th '65 Dearborn car today. The original underside color was a very dark gray, almost black. Even up front in the engine bay area after removing  factory sound deadeners. No sign of any red oxide.

[J_Speegle]

Not to confuse the subject, but had a chance to look at a Jan 11th '65 Dearborn car today. The original underside color was a very dark gray, almost black. Even up front in the engine bay area after removing  factory sound deadeners. No sign of any red oxide.

The use of batch appears to have started with the first Mustangs built at Dearborn, It's unusual to find the front frame rails and inner fender panels the same color but IMHO not unheard of - just VERY unusual. I have found a couple of much later cars that the same thing happened to. My guess it that the guy pushed the button (for the floor paint jets) too early on that one or the trigger (if that is what was used) malfunctioned on that particular car. Out of allot of cars (64-70) only hear of a couple.

[thefordshow]

I did take a pic of the bottom of the shock tower area looking up. You can see the black paint over the dark gray. Also found this as high as the heater box area?

[G Wood]

My car is a Nov 4 SJ build car. I have red oxide on the front strut rod area of the frame. On the floor pans, it appears to be black or dark grey. I have cut a paint drip off, and there is clean metal underneath, no evidence of red oxide. The car appears to be all original underneath, brake and gas lines have not been painted over and appear not to be ever removed. The DSO was Seattle.

[ChrisV289]

My car is a Nov 4 SJ build car. I have red oxide on the front strut rod area of the frame. On the floor pans, it appears to be black or dark grey. I have cut a paint drip off, and there is clean metal underneath, no evidence of red oxide. The car appears to be all original underneath, brake and gas lines have not been painted over and appear not to be ever removed. The DSO was Seattle.

Hmm...your floor pans sound like mine.  Thoughts anyone else on the lack of red oxide?

[CharlesTurner]

Hmm...your floor pans sound like mine.  Thoughts anyone else on the lack of red oxide?

Seems like this "short time" in SJ production for use of black is getting longer and longer!  I've observed 3 cars done like this with scheduled build dates at the end of January, early February 1965.

[mmv.mustangs]

I owned a SJ March 65 scheduled build fastback that also was painted black on the bottom. This was a number of years ago. I no longer own the car, but it was BLACK.

Mark Vasquez

[J_Speegle]

My car is a Nov 4 SJ build car. I have red oxide on the front strut rod area of the frame. On the floor pans, it appears to be black or dark grey. I have cut a paint drip off, and there is clean metal underneath, no evidence of red oxide. ................

First thanks for sharing your findings - if you could - might I ask that you post or PM your cars VIN so I can catalog it with the others on the spread sheet?

Too bad we don't know when these cars were really built (yours might have been built in December for all we know), then it would be easier to figure out which ones would have been which color rather than just a range

[G Wood]

Jeff:

My VIN is 5R09C154XXX.

Here is a photo of my driver side dolly location. No indication of red oxide.

Garth