Topic: When was change L8 C5OE cast iron water pump phased out to the C6OE version?

[21.04]

I've got a FeB 9, '66 assembled hi-po block and the water pump has been changed over the years.  I have not seen a section in the running changes for water pumps and trying to find out whether I should use the C5OE or C6OE cast iron pump?  According to Bob Mannel's book in Chr 5, he indicates the cast iron C5OE pump put in production at CL 8 and put ion late '65 and into '66 production.  Then by the end of '66 production the C6OE pump was exclusively used.  Do we know a more narrow time period the C5OE pump was no longer seen on cars?  Specifically, SJ cars?  Thanks for any help on the topic.

[Bob Gaines]

I've got a FeB 9, '66 assembled hi-po block and the water pump has been changed over the years.  I have not seen a section in the running changes for water pumps and trying to find out whether I should use the C5OE or C6OE cast iron pump?  According to Bob Mannel's book in Chr 5, he indicates the cast iron C5OE pump put in production at CL 8 and put ion late '65 and into '66 production.  Then by the end of '66 production the C6OE pump was exclusively used.  Do we know a more narrow time period the C5OE pump was no longer seen on cars?  Specifically, SJ cars?  Thanks for any help on the topic.

The only 66 cars that I am aware that used the C5 cast iron waterpump were the 66 carryover Shelby (SJ car) which were actually 65 production cars that were updated to 66 specs. My understanding is the C6OE went into use job 1 66.Your Feb 9 hipo block would almost certainly use the C6OE marked pump . So much so that if a concours Judge noticed it (C5OE pump)would expect to be provided with reasonable proof to support its use on a later block like that. Others may think differently.

[Bob Gaines]

I've got a FeB 9, '66 assembled hi-po block and the water pump has been changed over the years.  I have not seen a section in the running changes for water pumps and trying to find out whether I should use the C5OE or C6OE cast iron pump?  According to Bob Mannel's book in Chr 5, he indicates the cast iron C5OE pump put in production at CL 8 and put ion late '65 and into '66 production.  Then by the end of '66 production the C6OE pump was exclusively used.  Do we know a more narrow time period the C5OE pump was no longer seen on cars?  Specifically, SJ cars?  Thanks for any help on the topic.

I read on page 5-35 in 5G5 paragraph I see a sentance that includes "In 1965 and into 1966,' but he was talking about bolts.  I may have missed it but I can't find anything saying the C5OE pump was used in 66. If I missed it please help me find that wording.

[jwc66k]

I've got a FeB 9, '66 assembled hi-po block and the water pump has been changed over the years. 

You also should have a special 6 vane water pump which may or may not have been part of the standard 8 vane water pump change.
Jim

[21.04]

The reference in Mannels book was the 5G5 section and note (f) where I thought I found the reference.  Note (f) as Bob Gaines correctly points out identifies bolts and washers through 1966.  I can see how I misread the next sentence in the same note which is, "By the end of the model year, the cast iron pump casting number became C6OE-A."  So as Bob indicated, the C6OE cast pump would have been used day 1 of '66 production.  I really just need a new pair of glasses is all.  Thank you!

[jwc66k]

The reference in Mannels book was the 5G5 section and note (f) where I thought I found the reference.  Note (f) as Bob Gaines correctly points out identifies bolts and washers through 1966.  I can see how I misread the next sentence in the same note which is, "By the end of the model year, the cast iron pump casting number became C6OE-A."  So as Bob indicated, the C6OE cast pump would have been used day 1 of '66 production.  I really just need a new pair of glasses is all.  Thank you!

Not so fast. My 1966 Mustang GT Fastback "K" engine has a build date of 5H23 (1965 August 23) and a scheduled build date of 18K (October 18, 1965 - San Jose, with the VIN on the block) and it has the original cast iron water pump.
Jim

[Bob Gaines]

Not so fast. My 1966 Mustang GT Fastback "K" engine has a build date of 5H23 (1965 August 23) and a scheduled build date of 18K (October 18, 1965 - San Jose, with the VIN on the block) and it has the original cast iron water pump.
Jim

You didn't confirm if the waterpump is a C5OE or C6OE casting. Both water pumps are cast iron.

[jwc66k]

You didn't confirm if the waterpump is a C5OE or C6OE casting. Both water pumps are cast iron.

It's a C6OE-A casting.

"By the end of the model year, the cast iron pump casting number became C6OE-A."  So as Bob indicated, the C6OE cast pump would have been used day 1 of '66 production.

My 66 GT "K" Fastback engine has an assembly date of 5H23 (1965 August 23 - VIN is on the block) with a scheduled assembly date of 18K (October 18, 1965 - San Jose), so C6OE-A pumps were installed on 66 engines while 1965 Mustangs were still being built.
Jim

[Berns]

While this topic is a tad old, I think I'm in a same line of documentation need.

My car, which we baptized "Muscadelle" upon her arrival in our family, is pretty much factory original and now might need a water pump replacement soon.

I would like the replacement pump as close as possible to concours specific.
How should I proceed preferably?

The car has been assembled in okt. 65 in San Jose.

(I'm not aware of concours challenges close to Belgium, Europe, though feel I owe it to my car to keep it original if at all possible.)

[jwc66k]

The water pump type is engine build dependent. Your engine should have a build date about a week to possibly over a month prior to the scheduled assembly line build date (your partial VIN would be around the second week of October). That date is located on a cast in extension of the block in front of the distributor. See the two attached pictures. The actual date is in the form of year, a 5 in your case, a month in letter form ("J" would be September, "H" would be August), a one or two digit number for the day, and a letter for the the assembler or inspector. The picture is from one of my cars, 5H23Z
Jim
I've been to Antwerp back in late 1960 on a US Navy Destroyer. Saw the Atomium in Brussels. Impressive.

[Berns]

Jim, thanks for the quick response.

I'm not near the car right now.
I have analysed the cast number when I first got hold of Muscadelle, and could conclude the cast date of the engine block to be 22 sept '65.
The actual production date of the car would be 07 okt '65.
The car was ordered by the first owner on 16 nov '65 (according to the type machine fill out on the original manual).

Does this help sufficiently to direct me to a proper alternative pump, or should I truly need to produce similar images as the ones you submitten in order to progress?
(In the latter case, I can do that at earliest during the Week-End)

I was in SF during summer 2022 on vacation, on a road trip. Enumerating the impessive things I will remember would bring us all way of topic here

[jwc66k]

Jim, thanks for the quick response.

You're welcome.

I have analysed the cast number when I first got hold of Muscadelle, and could conclude the cast date of the engine block to be 22 sept '65.
The actual production date of the car would be 07 okt '65.

The engine casting date is located on the lower right hand side behind the starter. Your should see this Ford part number "C5AE-6015-E" in raised letters along with the casting date. The actual engine assemble date is actually in two places, on the mounting surface for the oil pan and not visible unless the oil pan is removed, and as I described above, by the distributor.
Engine blocks were cast, then allowed to cool outdoors for a couple of days (occasionally a month or two) before machining and assembly.
Jim

[Berns]

Jim,
I have the cast date indeed from the spot near the starter.
When the car was prepared for the Belgian vehicle inspection that it had to pass, I had the starter motor removed to have a picture of that casting number.
So, do we have sufficient information to identify which water pump is needed?
We can be pretty sure of an assembly date close to okt 1st 1965 (while the car model is already a 1966.)

In short: do we have sufficient info as to which water pump to get hold of?

[outlawincorporated]

C60E-A is and will always be the correct answer in my eyes

regards

PHILL BERESFORD
MELBOURNE.
AUSTRALIA.

[jwc66k]

Jim,
I have the cast date indeed from the spot near the starter.
When the car was prepared for the Belgian vehicle inspection that it had to pass, I had the starter motor removed to have a picture of that casting number.
So, do we have sufficient information to identify which water pump is needed?
We can be pretty sure of an assembly date close to okt 1st 1965 (while the car model is already a 1966.)

In short: do we have sufficient info as to which water pump to get hold of?

Again, that's the engine block casting date, NOT the engine assembly date. Back to my reply, number 9 for ENGINE assembly date location.
Jim