Topic: Glove box light fixture - 67 & 68

[196667Bob]

The Glove Box Lamp Assembly comes with a # 1895 Bulb (round glass globe, 14 volt, 0.27 amp, bayonet base). The feed wire is stamped " C3AB-14413-A2  SX  FoMoCo".
Hope this helps.

Bob

[67gta289]

I guess I need to dredge this one up because I have different results.  I cleaned mine up the other day and got a good look at the part number on the wire.  It is C7ZB-14413-A1.  Picture included, but it is not super clear.  I used a magnifying glass and lots of light to verify the number.

The Jan 67 MPC does list the C3AZ-14413-A part number, but that is not what I have.  To state the usual disclaimer, I can't be 100% certain on originality, but on something like this I'm pretty darn sure.

I suspect that there was an engineering change of some type, based on the new part number, and getting the documentation caught up (aka the wheels of justice) can take time.

Any others out there?  What does the 68 MPC say about this?

Also in regards to the question "when did 67 cars get the glove box light", I can say that I don't have the courtesy light group option, but I do have interior décor, and I do have the glove box light.  I would assume at this point that the glove box light is one of those "either or" things - either interior décor or courtesy lights.

Rather than create a new post, I figured it best to modify this post since there is good context.  Also if we learn new things, an older post with potentially partially correct information should be added on to.  Does that make sense?  There is a post http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=3135.msg16716#msg16716 that also refers to the courtesy light group.  Since that one has a hyperlink here, I think we have enough of a closed loop so that I don't have to amend that one also.

[jwc66k]

It is C7ZB-14413-A1.  Picture included, but it is not super clear.  I used a magnifying glass and lots of light to verify the number.
The Jan 67 MPC does list the C3AZ-14413-A part number, but that is not what I have. 

The factory installed C7ZB-14413-A1. If you went to a Ford dealer for a replacement you got C3AZ-14413-A. It will fit, it will work, it is not factory original.
Remember, any time you see a "Z" in the fourth position of a Ford part number, it is a service part.
Jim

[196667Bob]

John : Jim "beat me to the draw". I was going to say that finally it looks like we have an easy one. The 1960-68 MPC shows the same as the 67, except the C3AZ-14413-A changed to "-B" after 6/12/67. The 1965-72 MPC also shows C3AZ-14413-B. Next, I checked the OSI books; the C3AZ was never replaced by a "C7" number. Then it was time to check the Assembly Manuals; both the 1967 and 68 Electrical Assembly Manuals show the Glove Compartment Lamp Assembly as C7ZB-14413-A. Thus, as Jim noted, the Factory (or Assembly Line) part is the C7ZB part that you have, and the Service Part is the C3AZ.

Bob

[196667Bob]

John : Not having the Courtesy Light Group, I'm not sure how you ended up with the Factory Glove Box Light. I checked the Sales Brochure, Showroom Option Book, and the Salesmen's Price Book, and the Glove Box Light does not show up in either the listings for the Interior Décor Group, or the GT Group; only in the Courtesy Light Group. Of course, the contents of these groups could have changed during production, but if so, I have no documentation of that. There is also the outside chance that it was just an Assembly Line screw up; possibly most cars ordered with the Interior Décor Group also had the Courtesy light Group, and when the Interior was done on the line, it was just added, incorrectly "assuming" ?

It would definitely be interesting to see how many "out there" might have the Factory Glove Box Light, but not the Courtesy Light Group. This should be fairly easy to check as your C7ZB wire feed has a green bullet connector, whereas every Service Part C3AB Glove Box light that I've seen has a black bullet connector.

Let's hear from some who have the same case as John's.

Bob

[67gta289]

Bob,

Good points.  I did not add it, and am certain that the original owner did not either.  She took everything that needed repair to the shop.  Not one wire in the vehicle was ever cut, which is awesome for me.  All original sheet metal, etc.

I think I also have glove box light, but will have to check tonight since I don't have a picture of it.

The Marti report does not indicate the courtesy light group.  Plus there is no wire at the rear quarter if the rear light had been there at one point and subsequently removed.

[196667Bob]

John : Isn't the switch/glove box light on the other end of the wire and connector you posted the pictures of in Reply #16 ?  If not, I'm confused. According to the Electrical Assembly Manual, the Factory Glove Box Light looks just like the Service Part that I posted pictures of in Reply # 13 on September 28, except of course for the number on the wire and the green versus black bullet connector.

Please "en-lighten" me.

Bob

[67gta289]

John : Isn't the switch/glove box light on the other end of the wire and connector you posted the pictures of in Reply #16 ?

Yes, the light fixture/assembly is on the other end. I was just focusing on the wire that has the part number stamp.

I would agree that, yes, it looks identical to the service part, as near as I can tell by pictures.  Having one of each side by side might reveal some differences.

To state the obvious this is indeed a very minor detail in the big scheme of things.

I do wonder though this - since the service part is a C3 part, and pertinent to several years and more than one car line, why in the heck would Ford make a C7, let alone a C7Z specific part?  When you consider radiators for example, due to the cost and size, it makes sense to spend some money for 20 versions across a million cars, saving 50 cents here and there.  When going to a much lower service volume, the versions are reduced dramatically.  Its all about cost/profit.  A little old glove box light fixture done this way boggles my mind.  That is really why I posted the question.  I knew/know the difference between factory and service parts.  Does this line of questioning make sense?

[196667Bob]

I think I also have glove box light, but will have to check tonight since I don't have a picture of it.
[/quote]

John : I think the above is the statement that "threw" me since I figured you had to have the entire assembly.

As far as your line of questioning, I fully agree. Even if the C3 was a Service Part, it must have replaced some Factory Part that was very similar. So, I agree,  why in the world would they "reinvent the wheel" ?

Bob

[67gta289]

aha.  I meant to say was that I think I have the glove box locking knob (also part of the courtesy light group), but don't have a pic so will check.  So I checked, and yes I have the lock, and it matches the original key set.  So I've got two of the four parts of the courtesy light group, and the other two I definitely don't have.

[WT8095]

I do wonder though this - since the service part is a C3 part, and pertinent to several years and more than one car line, why in the heck would Ford make a C7, let alone a C7Z specific part?  When you consider radiators for example, due to the cost and size, it makes sense to spend some money for 20 versions across a million cars, saving 50 cents here and there.  When going to a much lower service volume, the versions are reduced dramatically.  Its all about cost/profit.  A little old glove box light fixture done this way boggles my mind.  That is really why I posted the question.  I knew/know the difference between factory and service parts.  Does this line of questioning make sense?

This is pure speculation:

1) Engineering created a C7ZA part without realizing the C3AB part would work, or simply didn't realize a compatible part already existed (missed it in a search).
2) When the part number was created, the plan was to create a unique part, and instead they ended up with essentially a copy of the C3AB part.
3) The C7ZA part was intentionally the same as the C3AB, but that part number was "too old" so they pulled a C7ZA assembly number. I've seen a few cases where it appears to me that Ford created a new number for a part that appeared to be identical to a part used perhaps 5-10 years earlier.

I'l reiterate, these possibilities are reasons I can think of why Ford might have made a '67-specific part number. I have no evidence that any of these scenarios took place. But these are the kinds of situations I see in my day-to-day experience in manufacturing. And while cost and profit are the primary drivers, sometimes choices are made for other reasons, such as reducing assembly errors, or because of problems with a supplier. And sometimes people make decisions that unintentionally end up costing more money; it just happens. Especially on minor detail items like this - they tend to get a lot less attention and scrutiny than big, expensive, complicated components.

When you consider how much work goes into each and every component and fastener in a vehicle, and how many vehicles and TYPES of vehicles Ford made (and still makes), it is astonishing how well the system actually worked. Sorry, this stuff fascinates me and I get a little carried away sometimes! 

[196667Bob]

aha.  I meant to say was that I think I have the glove box locking knob (also part of the courtesy light group), but don't have a pic so will check.  So I checked, and yes I have the lock, and it matches the original key set.  So I've got two of the four parts of the courtesy light group, and the other two I definitely don't have.

John : Now that makes more sense - or confuses the issue even more, depending on how one looks at it. So you basically have the Interior portions of the Courtesy Light Group; this now makes me wonder, since yours is an "Early" build, were the Glove Compartment Light and lock originally part of the "Interior Décor" option, and then eliminated at a later date ? As your Marti has no reference to the courtesy Light Group, this could be the case ?
Does anyone "out there" have any documentation of this being the case, or have the same situation on their car with only the Interior portion of the Courtesy Light Group (which would also include an under-dash light if a Hardtop) but not the Hood or Luggage Compartment lamps, with the Interior Décor option ? This would be interesting to know.

Bob

[ruppstang]

I have Ford's early option catalogue and there is no mention of the glove box lock or light under the interior décor group. The most likely scenario is those items were added by the dealer for the first owner or the PO add them. They would have not been hard to get from Ford service or a salvage yard.   

[196667Bob]

Marty : You are correct that these two options would be pretty easy to add (I added both of these to my 67 in the early 80's). However, you wouldn't get the Factory C7ZB Glove Compartment Light from the Dealer Parts Department, and you would have to have the Glove Compartment Lock rekeyed to match the Trunk Lock. Possible, but highly unlikely knowing the History of John's car (see John's previous replies to this Post Topic).

My resources for 1967 Options are a 1967 Mustang Sales Brochure (dated 1-67), a 1967 Salesman's Price Guide (dated 3-67), and the 1967 Ford Options Showroom GBC bound "flip chart" (not dated, but marked "Vol 67 C11LB", so probably a 67 publication. You noted you had an "early" options catalog; what is it, and what is the date on it ? As you can see, mine are all after John's build date of 12/20/66, so my resources are not necessarily valid when his car was built.

Thanks for your input.

Bob

[67gtasanjose]

Marty : You are correct that these two options would be pretty easy to add (I added both of these to my 67 in the early 80's). However, you wouldn't get the Factory C7ZB Glove Compartment Light from the Dealer Parts Department, and you would have to have the Glove Compartment Lock rekeyed to match the Trunk Lock. Possible, but highly unlikely knowing the History of John's car (see John's previous replies to this Post Topic).

My resources for 1967 Options are a 1967 Mustang Sales Brochure (dated 1-67), a 1967 Salesman's Price Guide (dated 3-67), and the 1967 Ford Options Showroom GBC bound "flip chart" (not dated, but marked "Vol 67 C11LB", so probably a 67 publication. You noted you had an "early" options catalog; what is it, and what is the date on it ? As you can see, mine are all after John's build date of 12/20/66, so my resources are not necessarily valid when his car was built.

Thanks for your input.

Bob

I am with Marty on this one, very easy to find ALL OF THESE ITEMS mentioned plus a trunk lock  from another car in a salvage yard that are keyed the same and very easily switched out. I've done it too! Any car I had back in the day would get every EASY upgrade imaginable, I was at some places know as the "Junkyard Dog", so trust me...nothing is off the list of possibilities on such things.