Topic: Shaker hood trim ring sealant/gasket and speed nut finish

[Wills70]

These were included with the Nos trim ring I purchased from Perogies back in the 80?s

[alanmac]

Hopey, Thanks for the direction.  I'll keep my eyes out for the correct nut. 

[J_Speegle]

Maybe someone that has and original can post the out side diameter of the base at the washer to help others in their search. Think this might be of some help

[hopey]

Maybe someone that has and original can post the out side diameter of the base at the washer to help others in their search. Think this might be of some help

See post #3, all the specifications for p/n 382110-S100 are listed in the Ford fastener manual.  It is 0.688 inch. (11/16)

[J_Speegle]

See post #3, all the specifications for p/n 382110-S100 are listed in the Ford fastener manual.  It is 0.688 inch

Thanks that will help others if they are going through a bucket of hardware.

[hopey]

Thanks that will help others if they are going through a bucket of hardware.

0.688 is 11/16

Edit.

PAL refer to this style as a washer nut. It is a 11/16 washer with a 11/32 hex with a 5/32 thread onto a pre-threaded stud. The sealant is pre-applied to the nut, a type of very dark grey/black pliable mastic that is malleable  even after 50+ years. PAL expected manufacturers to use their proprietary magnetic socket, and the fastener is also available in a thread cutting version (see photo above for NOS kit supplied by Perogie).  The process is explained in the application guide included with each engineers sample kit. Ford of course had pre-cut threads on the shaker trim ring so no need for a thread cutting nut here but elsewhere on emblems/ other trim the self threading feature was used.

Some of the palnut design engineer kits I got from a palnut retiree on eBay a few years ago. Each kit is pretty much a custom selection so if trying to source this particular fastener just keep searching eBay. If you look at the photo with the fasteners visible you can see some of the nuts with sealant- uniform circular silicone dome and the less uniform dark mastic.

[jwc66k]

See post #3, all the specifications for p/n 382110-S100 are listed in the Ford fastener manual.  It is 0.688 inch. (11/16)

And it is (wait for it) documented in this forum's library since 2015 under topic "Mustang Hardware Spreadsheet 69-70".
Jim

[hopey]

Jim, is it worth documenting the observed S100 finish in this application, or is this post sufficient?

[hopey]

These were included with the Nos trim ring I purchased from Perogies back in the 80?s

Those are the thread cutting version of the washer nut. Since the threads are already formed on the trim ring I do not believe they are assembly line correct. Note the photo from Marcus showing the version that installed on a pre-threaded stud.

[jwc66k]

Jim, is it worth documenting the observed S100 finish in this application, or is this post sufficient?

It sure is. However, we have multiple finishes shown and a haunting question - "To seal or not to seal?" The original finish was probably a dull copper, not a shiny textbook flavor. Plus we saw a sample of "pitted zinc" (it looked like it was wire brushed). And one picture of a service replacement that was - well - usable with a non-shiny cad/zinc "covering" (service replacement parts are not always like original assembly parts).

Those are the thread cutting version of the washer nut. Since the threads are already formed on the trim ring I do not believe they are assembly line correct. Note the photo from Marcus showing the version that installed on a pre-threaded stud.

The original - 382110-S100, as shown on the infamous page 217 of the "AMK Guide . . " are classified as (wait for it) self threading, which is the same as thread cutting.
Jim

 

[hopey]

It sure is. However, we have multiple finishes shown and a haunting question - "To seal or not to seal?" The original finish was probably a dull copper, not a shiny textbook flavor. Plus we saw a sample of "pitted zinc" (it looked like it was wire brushed). And one picture of a service replacement that was - well - usable with a non-shiny cad/zinc "covering" (service replacement parts are not always like original assembly parts).The original - 382110-S100, as shown on the infamous page 217 of the "AMK Guide . . " are classified as (wait for it) self threading, which is the same as thread cutting.
Jim

 

Dull copper? Eh?  You have lost me with that one

Sealant- specification calls for it and Jeff posted photos of unrestored examples which clearly show it.

The AMK reproductions do not match any of the dimensional specifications except the hex size. From all the original photos the AMK version are just wrong.

 

[jwc66k]

Dull copper? Eh?  You have lost me with that one

Let me enlighten you:
Pic 1 - shiny copper
Pic 2 - dull copper
Picture are for color samples only.

Sealant- specification calls for it and Jeff posted photos of unrestored examples which clearly show it.

No question. The infamous page 217 of the "AMK Products Guide to Ford Fasteners 1955-73" states that Ford hardware part number 382100-S100 is supplied with a sealant. Ya got a copy?

The AMK reproductions do not match any of the dimensional specifications except the hex size. From all the original photos the AMK version are just wrong.

No question there, 382100-S100 is not part of, and seems to never been sold as an original nut or reproduced by AMK (although it may have been part of an "AMK Master Kit", that's difficult to determine).
I also did some additional on-line research and a commercial version of 382100-S (with out any finish or sealant, the basic measure nut) is not not currently produced or stocked.
Further research using "Ford Car Parts" (aka MPC) shows a separate nut and washer for service replacement.
Jim

[jwc66k]

AMK does indeed sell its reproduction of 382110-S100. I guess you never checked thoroughly. I have some on my workbench. F-2156 is the number, contains 10 speed nuts. Nothing like the PAL originals.

I found kit F-2156. That AMK kit states "9/16 D" but 382110-S is documented as 11/16 inch outside diameter.
"Nothing" is a bit strong wording even though it fits. Too small an outside diameter would be more appropriate.

. . what I was asking was how do ANY of the photos of original fastener installations posted by Jeff or Marcus lead you to believe the original finish was copper (dull or otherwise)? I look forward to your explanation.

In reply number 3, the picture shows a tint of dull copper/bronze finish. The majority of that type of Pal nuts used by Ford have had that dull copper finish. After 50 years (+/- a few) of exposure to the elements an original finish gets "lost".
Jim

[alanmac]

These are my original PAL NUTS for the trim ring.  They had sealer underneath, since some was still present.  They appear to be ZINC plated with no chromate.  I wonder if they had any anti corrosion treatment when new?   My painter lost 4.   Alan   

[jwc66k]

Those nuts are rare, that's for sure. Because of all the "interest", I looked thru my "sorted by size stamped nut" a couple of times but there weren't any.
Jim