Topic: 1968 Red Dye Fasteners Research & Discussion

[bullitt68]

I had posted in my build thread and it was suggested that I make a general post about the 1968 Red Dye Fasteners topic. I have found and confirmed some information about which fasteners got red dye and some of the specific details, but I still have some fasteners that I have not confirmed 100%. Perhaps there is someone else who has already gone through this process and can share their findings or what they have done. I would assume that someone who had their 68 judged may have already been through this process, perhaps after the fact, which is what I am trying to avoid. Wile I have applied red dye to some fasteners, I am not sure ig the application id correct.


Hoping someone out there can point me in the right direction or set me on the path for success. Not sure If I missed anything. Obviously the read shock mount plates use red dye nuts as well, but I figure everyone already knows that, so I didn't bother posting a photo.

[Keith Stem]

Here is a collection Hardware with S-100 and S-101 Finish from the Jim Osborne Chassis and Interior Manuals
For a Mustang GT-8 Cylinders?Disc Brakes. The Osborne manuals are not specific to plants.
________________________________________
Qty      Description                                         Reference
________________________________________
4   Nuts on Upper Control Arm Shaft                               Chassis Manual Page 30
4   Spindle Nuts on Upper and Lower Ball Joints                  Chassis Manual Page 30
4   Strut Rod nuts at Lower Control Arm                       Chassis Manual Page 30
4   Strut Rod nuts at Bushing Forward and Aft                    Chassis Manual Page 30
4   Upper and Lower Caliper Bolts                               Chassis Manual Page 30
2   Bolts and Nuts on Forward end of Leaf Spring                 Chassis Manual Page 34
8   Nuts on Rear Axle U-Bolts                                  Chassis Manual Page 34
2   Bolts attaching Flexible Brake Hose to Caliper                 Chassis Manual Page 37
4   Clips attaching Brake hardline to Floor pan                    Chassis Manual Page 37
2   Nuts attaching Brake Proportioning Valve                    Chassis Manual Page 37
1   Adjusting Nut for Emergency Brake Cable                    Chassis Manual Page 39
2   Nuts on Firewall attaching Emergency Brake Cable Pulley           Chassis Manual Page 39
3   Spring Clips on Emergency Brake Cable                    Chassis Manual Page 39
1   Spring Clip on Brake Pedal Rod                               Chassis Manual Page 45
4   Exhaust Manifold Studs at H-Pipe                       Chassis Manual Page 60/61
2   Idler Arm Attaching Bolts and Nuts                       Chassis Manual Page 66
1   Nut attaching Pittman Arm to Steering Box                    Chassis Manual Page 66
3   Bolts attaching Steering Box to Frame                            Chassis Manual Page 66
1   Clamp Bolt on Input Shaft to Steering Box                    Chassis Manual Page 68
2   Nuts on Steering Flex Coupling                               Chassis Manual Page 68
1   Nut attaching Steering Wheel to Steering Shaft                 Chassis Manual Page 68
2   Front Seat Belt Bolts Outboard                               Interior Manual Page 35
2   Front Seat Belt Washers/Spacers Outboard                    Interior Manual Page 35
2   Front Seat Belt Bolts at Driveshaft Tunnel                    Interior Manual Page 36
4   Front Seat Belt Inboard Washers/Spacers at Driveshaft Tunnel   Interior Manual Page 36
4   Rear Seat Belt Bolts and Washers/Spacers                    Interior Manual Page 45
 

[Anghelrestorations]

Here is photos of a low mileage June built San Jose 68 Mustang I took tonight.  You can see that what we would think is typical is not typical on alot of these fasteners.  I especially have never seen camber bolts with red dye on them like in the photos here so not sure I would reproduce that on another car unless we have more examples from that time period.... or if that fails at least from any time period.  Seems uncommon to me as I have not seen it on other cars.

20230625_204242 by Marcus Anghel, on Flickr

20230625_204551 by Marcus Anghel, on Flickr

20230625_204641 by Marcus Anghel, on Flickr

20230625_204705 by Marcus Anghel, on Flickr

20230625_204722 by Marcus Anghel, on Flickr

[J_Speegle]

Here is a collection Hardware with S-100 and S-101 Finish from the Jim Osborne Chassis and Interior Manuals
For a Mustang GT-8 Cylinders?Disc Brakes. The Osborne manuals are not specific to plants.....

For others it would help if we knew when those pages were completed. Not everyone has every Assembly manual for every year.

See a couple in the list I don't recognize.

See a couple that were not covered in your list but guess we will work through this all as time passes

[bullitt68]

Here is a collection Hardware with S-100 and S-101 Finish from the Jim Osborne Chassis and Interior Manuals
For a Mustang GT-8 Cylinders?Disc Brakes. The Osborne manuals are not specific to plants.
________________________________________
Qty      Description                                         Reference
________________________________________
4   Nuts on Upper Control Arm Shaft                               Chassis Manual Page 30
4   Spindle Nuts on Upper and Lower Ball Joints                  Chassis Manual Page 30
4   Strut Rod nuts at Lower Control Arm                       Chassis Manual Page 30
4   Strut Rod nuts at Bushing Forward and Aft                    Chassis Manual Page 30
4   Upper and Lower Caliper Bolts                               Chassis Manual Page 30
2   Bolts and Nuts on Forward end of Leaf Spring                 Chassis Manual Page 34
8   Nuts on Rear Axle U-Bolts                                  Chassis Manual Page 34
2   Bolts attaching Flexible Brake Hose to Caliper                 Chassis Manual Page 37
4   Clips attaching Brake hardline to Floor pan                    Chassis Manual Page 37
2   Nuts attaching Brake Proportioning Valve                    Chassis Manual Page 37
1   Adjusting Nut for Emergency Brake Cable                    Chassis Manual Page 39
2   Nuts on Firewall attaching Emergency Brake Cable Pulley           Chassis Manual Page 39
3   Spring Clips on Emergency Brake Cable                    Chassis Manual Page 39
1   Spring Clip on Brake Pedal Rod                               Chassis Manual Page 45
4   Exhaust Manifold Studs at H-Pipe                       Chassis Manual Page 60/61
2   Idler Arm Attaching Bolts and Nuts                       Chassis Manual Page 66
1   Nut attaching Pittman Arm to Steering Box                    Chassis Manual Page 66
3   Bolts attaching Steering Box to Frame                            Chassis Manual Page 66
1   Clamp Bolt on Input Shaft to Steering Box                    Chassis Manual Page 68
2   Nuts on Steering Flex Coupling                               Chassis Manual Page 68
1   Nut attaching Steering Wheel to Steering Shaft                 Chassis Manual Page 68
2   Front Seat Belt Bolts Outboard                               Interior Manual Page 35
2   Front Seat Belt Washers/Spacers Outboard                    Interior Manual Page 35
2   Front Seat Belt Bolts at Driveshaft Tunnel                    Interior Manual Page 36
4   Front Seat Belt Inboard Washers/Spacers at Driveshaft Tunnel   Interior Manual Page 36
4   Rear Seat Belt Bolts and Washers/Spacers                    Interior Manual Page 45
 

Thanks Keith. I noted all those fasteners from the Osbourne manual as well and I interpreted S-100 as red dye, so I applied the red dye to all those fasteners. However  now I am second guessing myself. Did you restore a 68 using this list?

[bullitt68]

Here is photos of a low mileage June built San Jose 68 Mustang I took tonight.  You can see that what we would think is typical is not typical on alot of these fasteners.  I especially have never seen camber bolts with red dye on them like in the photos here so not sure I would reproduce that on another car unless we have more examples from that time period.... or if that fails at least from any time period.  Seems uncommon to me as I have not seen it on other cars.

20230625_204242 by Marcus Anghel, on Flickr

20230625_204551 by Marcus Anghel, on Flickr

20230625_204641 by Marcus Anghel, on Flickr

20230625_204705 by Marcus Anghel, on Flickr

20230625_204722 by Marcus Anghel, on Flickr

Thanks Marcus I appreciate it. Like I was telling Keith who posted the list of S-100 fasteners. I went by the manual and applied the red dye to all those fasteners as per my original photos. Just confirming that you are saying that perhaps red dye should not be applied to all those fasteners?

Unfortunately my car was semi restored when I got it, so I didn't see any red dye on any fasteners other than the rear fold down rear seat and front seat. Can you confirm any other fasteners that should get the red dye?

I would love to know so I can continue putting my car together and remove any dye that does not belong. If I go by your photos, then none of the engine bay/suspension/steering fasteners should have dye applied.

What would a judge think if he saw all the red dye, would there be deductions.

Just curious what the consensus is as I have not seen much conversation about it on the forum and most people I ask don't seem to know either.

FYI I saw a very low mile 1969 GT at MCACN and took a lot of photos and did notice red dye applied to some fasteners. Just not sure how much difference there was between 68 & 69 in regards to the safety dye on fasteners.

[Keith Stem]

The list is from the 68 Assembly manual. I restored my 68 CJ using red machinist dye and this list because it is the only documentation, I had it the time (2002). The way Ford engineered the car and the way it came off the line could be different.

[ruppstang]

I am a MCA 67-68 gold card judge. I would be slow to deduct for red dye missing because just as you have seen in this thread there is uncertainty in this matter. The benefit of doubt always goes to the car. I would deduct for poorly done dye or dye on things that were inappropriate. I would follow the unrestored car pictures near your production date that was offered to you.

[Keith Stem]

+1 Marty, I am not sure if a lot of the cars I have judged even had the red dye hardware. In the future I will look for red dye hardware, but it will only be noted on the judging sheet.

[Bob Gaines]

I am a MCA 67-68 gold card judge. I would be slow to deduct for red dye missing because just as you have seen in this thread there is uncertainty in this matter. The benefit of doubt always goes to the car. I would deduct for poorly done dye or dye on things that were inappropriate. I would follow the unrestored car pictures near your production date that was offered to you.

+1  . There are fasteners that are more prone to have the safety dye typically then others . The thing that can happen during a restoration that would be a possible deduction more times then not is as Marty said about poorly done dye. Overdoing it making it too bright ,using the wrong product or using the dye over the wrong underlying finish are some of the issues. The steering coupler star bolt seen in your previous restored pictures is just such a example of too bright . The bolt was zinc phosphate and then thin dye applied. I will typically slosh the bolt around in a jar or bottle of the dye and take it out to dry.  Zinc phosphate bolts dipped in dye and zinc dichromate or bright zinc plated bolts dipped in dye have distinct different looks.

[jwc66k]

I was under the impression that the "red" was a dye, not a paint. The referenced hardware in many of the pictures are painted.

Here is a collection Hardware with S-100 and S-101 Finish from the Jim Osborne Chassis and Interior Manuals

You may be correct, but by the definitions in the "AMK Guide to Ford Fasteners, 1955-73", and other sources, -S100 and up, are not a specific finish but are documented on the actual hardware drawing (which unfortunately, are seldom seen). 
Jim

[bullitt68]

The list is from the 68 Assembly manual. I restored my 68 CJ using red machinist dye and this list because it is the only documentation, I had it the time (2002). The way Ford engineered the car and the way it came off the line could be different.

Thanks Keith do you have any photos of any examples?

[bullitt68]

I am a MCA 67-68 gold card judge. I would be slow to deduct for red dye missing because just as you have seen in this thread there is uncertainty in this matter. The benefit of doubt always goes to the car. I would deduct for poorly done dye or dye on things that were inappropriate. I would follow the unrestored car pictures near your production date that was offered to you.

Thanks Marty I will rethink my dye application and revise accordingly

[bullitt68]

+1  . There are fasteners that are more prone to have the safety dye typically then others . The thing that can happen during a restoration that would be a possible deduction more times then not is as Marty said about poorly done dye. Overdoing it making it too bright ,using the wrong product or using the dye over the wrong underlying finish are some of the issues. The steering coupler star bolt seen in your previous restored pictures is just such a example of too bright . The bolt was zinc phosphate and then thin dye applied. I will typically slosh the bolt around in a jar or bottle of the dye and take it out to dry.  Zinc phosphate bolts dipped in dye and zinc dichromate or bright zinc plated bolts dipped in dye have distinct different looks.

Thanks Bob great advice. I will go back and refinish the fasteners in question. I think the underlying finish is correct on the fasteners as I used the spread sheets (Jims) for reference.

[bullitt68]

I was under the impression that the "red" was a dye, not a paint. The referenced hardware in many of the pictures are painted. You may be correct, but by the definitions in the "AMK Guide to Ford Fasteners, 1955-73", and other sources, -S100 and up, are not a specific finish but are documented on the actual hardware drawing (which unfortunately, are seldom seen). 
Jim

Where do I find the AMK Guide to Ford Fasteners, 1955-73?