Topic: 1966 Starter 200 engine C4 problems

[Maksim27]

Guys I'm trying to find a correct Starter for my Jan 1966 C4 200 San Jose Mustang...

Does anyone have the correct pictures or part numbers that would be correct for a Jan 66 build date.  Anything from Oct-Dec 65

I already have a rebuilt starter but the teeth keep grinding on the torque converter when I turn the engine by hand.  Not sure if I bolted the C4 trans incorrectly or the torque converter/starter were rebuilt incorrectly.   The teeth from the starter/torque converter keep contacting and grinding like 1/4 of a turn.  Not sure if the converter teeth were welded closer or further away as it was originally.  Had my trans rebuilt in 2020 but kept having this issue that I'm trying to solve or find a correct starter. 

The starter I believe is for a 1967 and over Mustang.  I had a shop make it somewhat concours as the starter came with my car when I bought it from the PO.  The nose cone has No. C7AF-11131

Yes I had the starter painted all black as can been seen in the last pictures.

[Bob Gaines]

Guys I'm trying to find a correct Starter for my Jan 1966 C4 200 San Jose Mustang...

Does anyone have the correct pictures or part numbers that would be correct for a Jan 66 build date.  Anything from Oct-Dec 65

I already have a rebuilt starter but the teeth keep grinding on the torque converter when I turn the engine by hand.  Not sure if I bolted the C4 trans incorrectly or the torque converter/starter were rebuilt incorrectly.   The teeth from the starter/torque converter keep contacting and grinding like 1/4 of a turn.  Not sure if the converter teeth were welded closer or further away as it was originally.  Had my trans rebuilt in 2020 but kept having this issue that I'm trying to solve or find a correct starter. 

The starter I believe is for a 1967 and over Mustang.  I had a shop make it somewhat concours as the starter came with my car when I bought it from the PO.  The nose cone has No. C7AF-11131

Yes I had the starter painted all black as can been seen in the last pictures.

The 67 starter should be the same style as on a 66 6 cylinder. The Bendix and gear orientation should be the same too. I have a question since I am not familiar with C4  6 cylinder transmissions . I noticed the teeth welded to the torque converter . A V8 C4 has a separate flexplate  that has teeth and it is bolted to the torque converter with the same 4 studs and nuts seen on the torque converter in the picture. Is the picture typical or should there be a separate 6 cylinder flexplate ?

[ruppstang]

You may want to check if your torque converted is fully seated. If not, it can cause the issues, you are having.

[jwc66k]

You may want to check if your torque converted is fully seated. If not, it can cause the issues, you are having.

On a 66 289 with a C4, there is a guide pin on the torque converter that must be inserted in an appropriate hole on the flex plate. I assume a 200 I6 has the same. You need to remove the access cover and the flex plate attaching bolts to verify this. 
Jim

[Maksim27]

Bob Gaines

There is a separate flex plate that is mounted to the engine. 

[Maksim27]

Ruppstang:


The torque converter was seated with 1 inch tucked in of the C4.  When I started turning the torque nuts, the torque converter starter moving closer to the engine.  This is after bolting the bellhousing nuts.

[ruppstang]

You said that the starter is the one that came with your car. Did everything work properly when you got the car? If so I would try either a different torque converter or shimming out the starter.

[mtinkham]

Bob Gaines made a statement about the gears that appear to be welded on the torque converter - which I don't think was answered. The flex plate that mounts to the engine (crankshaft) should have the teeth to which the starter engages - is the flex plate in place? Lastly, there should be an engine-to-bell housing plate that acts as a shim between the two assemblies - is this plate in place?

[ruppstang]

Bob Gaines made a statement about the gears that appear to be welded on the torque converter - which I don't think was answered. The flex plate that mounts to the engine (crankshaft) should have the teeth to which the starter engages - is the flex plate in place? Lastly, there should be an engine-to-bell housing plate that acts as a shim between the two assemblies - is this plate in place?

See picture of his torque converter. 200 is different than a 289.

[Bossbill]

Bob Gaines made a statement about the gears that appear to be welded on the torque converter - which I don't think was answered. The flex plate that mounts to the engine (crankshaft) should have the teeth to which the starter engages - is the flex plate in place? Lastly, there should be an engine-to-bell housing plate that acts as a shim between the two assemblies - is this plate in place?

The flex plate for the early 170/200 series looks nothing like a V8 flexplate. See pic.

But Maksim27 should answer the question about engine plate. I keep tripping over one in the shop and have no clue as to why I have it.

He should also verify that the drain plug on the converter goes through any of the holes in the flex plate.

You should also take a deep dive into the 60-68 MPC. The 200 takes a number of different starters with 65 appearing to be different than later years.
You should list your ring gear depth from block plate to ring gear. Also count the ring gear as there is more than one tooth count.

[Maksim27]

Yes all 4 converter bolts and drain plug went in the flex plate.  The starter was rebuilt and I wanted the shop to add a FoMoCo starter plate to make it more concours.  Does the nose cone look like it should be for a C4 or a manual trans.  Like I said 3/4 when I turn by hand it spins smoothly, then 1/4 turn gets super rough and creates a grunch sound until I completer that turn, then smooth again. 

Not sure if the trans shop replaced the ring gear when rebuilding the converter and welded it incorrectly.  This was three years ago and don't think anyone of them remembers.  It was an average trans shop that did classic and modern car trans.

[Bossbill]

I would pull the starter, pull the spark plugs (to make it real easy to turn engine), bolt in and bend a coat hanger to just touch a tooth on the outside of the ring and turn the engine over via the front damper bolt. Use a camera to video the result.
The hanger tip should look like this in relation to the ring gear:   - (

It could be the ring gear is not welded concentric to engine centerline.

On edit: After you get done with the eccentric test you should also test for wobble. That is, if there is any movement front to rear of the ring gear. You can test this with a dial indicator or if the ring gear is not smooth enough with the same coat hanger now touching the face of the ring gear.