Topic: Hanging Doors

[Angela]

It's been a long time since I've needed to install doors onto the body. I do not remember what sequence worked best for me in the past:  (a) Install hinges onto the body first, then hang the doors, or (b) install the hinges onto the doors and install onto the body as an assembly.

What sequence did Ford use?

What sequence have other folks found to work best?

Any other tips related to this specific task?
Thanks!

[jwc66k]

I attach the hinges to the doors first. Then set the door on a milk carrier with a towel in between, in the door open position. Adjust the door on the carrier to raise the door, use a couple of wood shims. Jack up the car as needed for the other direction. Top bolts first, loosely. Two people are best to do this. Adjust the door to the frame; use a couple of wood shims. The second one usually goes in "better".
Jim

[CharlesTurner]

Ford had a machine fixture to do this.


When doing door adjustments, it's always good to have the car sitting on all 4 wheels with the suspension loaded (drive-train installed), to get close to how the body will settle.  Convertibles may be more prone to some slight movement, not so much on coupes/fastbacks.  At least this rules out potential surprises later.


Another thing to consider is that once the fit is close, load up the doors with some weight to simulate all the parts that will go into them.  All the individual parts together for a 65-66 standard interior door weigh about 40-45lbs.  For a 67-68, it's about 50-55lbs.  A couple dumb bells in the doors should help get the weight needed.  Do final adjustments with the weight.  When removing the weight, the back top corner should be up about 1/8" or so.

[Bossbill]

I've done this alone using a cast iron floor jack with a lot of padding in the saddle.
The aluminum jacks don't have enough mass to keep them stable under the door.
Using a jack allows adjustment on the fly.

Makes me wonder if a cherry picker grabbing the window opening with hooks wouldn't work with greater finesse.

Oh, paint sticks to measure clearances and to shim.

[Angela]

Thanks everyone! I much appreciate learning what has worked well for you. It sounds like attaching the hinges to the doors first is preferred.

I understand the use of a paint stick as a means to quickly assess gaps around the door. I don't understand what you mean when suggesting using paint sticks as shims. Between what two surfaces are shims being used?

Thanks again.

[Bossbill]

It depends on your car as to how big the gaps are.
The gaps on the lower part of the door are sometimes greater than just one paint stick. Jim suggested using wood shims. Paint sticks (one or two) usually on the bottom are the shims to which I refer.

After the door is bolted in place the wood shims are removed. I'm not suggesting they stay in place.

[jwc66k]

It depends on your car as to how big the gaps are.
The gaps on the lower part of the door are sometimes greater than just one paint stick. Jim suggested using wood shims. Paint sticks (one or two) usually on the bottom are the shims to which I refer.

After the door is bolted in place the wood shims are removed. I'm not suggesting they stay in place.

After the door is hung, don't tighten the hinge bolts to the body too much. What you adjusting to/with is the hinge to a 1/4 inch thick steel plate, 3 x 4 inches, inside the door and inside the body frame to move the door. If I remember correctly, the body plates have a tendency to "drop", and you will say "things".
The first alignment is the top of the door front to the body front, without the fender in place. It's an approximate (ballpark) alignment at the front bottom of 1/8 to 3/16 inch, and to make sure you don't have an interference fit at the bottom and rear. The wooden shims I referred to are those used to hang doors in a house, and those shims are tapered. Used in conjunction with a paint stirring stick works.
Next: align the top rear of the door to the rear quarter body, keeping in mind that there should be a gap on the bottom and rear of the door of 1/8 to 3/16 inch. That's the goal. You're adjusting the doors on a 55 year old car. To keep the rear alignment, the door striker at the rear quarter needs to be installed and aligned. The striker is an up/down - in/out alignment. Having the window and the rest of the door innards installed makes the door heavy but it's actually better in the long run as the door "may" not settle when that stuff is installed. The rest is - "open" - "adjust" - "close" - "swear" - "repeat".
The front edge of the door is actually not adjusted, the fender is - to match the door.
Jim
 

[J_Speegle]

Thanks everyone! I much appreciate learning what has worked well for you. It sounds like attaching the hinges to the doors first is preferred.

Yes for what ever reason I've always found it easier to attach the hinges to the A pillar rather than the hinge to the door while I'm holding the door tightly to the unibody with the other hand and or lower body. Must be the addition twist of the wrist and it's more visible that way. They are pretty light at that stage

I understand the use of a paint stick as a means to quickly assess gaps around the door. I don't understand what you mean when suggesting using paint sticks as shims. Between what two surfaces are shims being used?

I've also often tapped a paint stir stick to the top of the sill to insulate the door from the sill, even though neither is painted yet, for the door to rest on as I attach it

Don't forget to chalk the hinges at the A pillar based on year and plant practices

[mtinkham]

...Makes me wonder if a cherry picker grabbing the window opening with hooks wouldn't work with greater finesse...

Bill, your cherry picker idea made me wonder if ratchet straps might work in the same manner. I'll be hanging a 67 FB door in the coming weeks. I think I'll try it.

[carlite65]

here's what you need....

https://www.tooldiscounter.com/product/steck-door-hanger-e-z-rest-stk21870?gclid=EAIaIQobChMInp64zeWI_AIVDPnICh3uQAKwEAQYAiABEgICHfD_BwE

[drummingrocks]

here's what you need....

https://www.tooldiscounter.com/product/steck-door-hanger-e-z-rest-stk21870?gclid=EAIaIQobChMInp64zeWI_AIVDPnICh3uQAKwEAQYAiABEgICHfD_BwE

This is what I use too.  Highly recommended, especially if you're doing this by yourself with no help.

[jwc66k]

Hanging An Assembly Line Door -

First, the setting: The body of the Mustang has been welded together, everything that needs to be welded on the car, has been welded on the car, mostly by spot welding. The Mustang has not been painted. All the pieces that were welded on were primed, but the welding process has burnt off some of the primer. Nothing that bolts on to the car has been bolted on.

References:

- 1964-65 Mustang Weld & Sealant Manual, AM0009, pgs 93 thru 104, 155 (dwgs W4-8300-A thru -C, W4-8336)
(There is no 1966 Manual, but most of the 1966 parts and processes are similar to 1964-65).
- 1967 Mustang Weld & Sealant Manual, AM0019, pgs 87-91, 143 (dwgs W7-8300-A thru -C, W7-8346).
(Note: Sheet 1 of dwg W7-8300-A is missing, the Hardtop drawing sheet, but the 67 Hardtop bill of materials is very similar to the 1968 Hardtop bill of materials and therefor the 68 drawing can be used.)
- 1968 Mustang Weld & Sealant Manual, AM0024, pgs 90-95, 146 (dwgs W9-8300-A thru -C, W8-8346)
- 1969 (There is no 1969 Manual, but many of the 1969 items and processes are the similar to 1970).
- 1970 Mustang Weld & Sealant Manual, AM0034, pgs 85-87, 136 (dwgs W0-300, W0-348).
- 1971-72 Mustang Weld & Sealant Manual, AM0039, pgs 83-86 (dwgs W2Z-300, page 86 is an earlier revision to page 83, and sheet 4 of W2Z-300 is missing). 
Notes, 71-72: There is no 1973 Manual, but many of the 1971-72 items and processes are similar to 1973. There is no page showing the hinge-door-body assembly for 71-73.

General Discussion:

This is what I've determined.
Some background: The Ford drawing number system is organized by ?assembly line steps?. If you look at any of the Mustang Assembly Manuals, the assembly line procedures follows the Ford drawing number, with the lowest number being a starting point and the highest number being a finish point, with drawing numbers in between being "steps". Each "group" has a letter prefix, W = Weld, E = Electrical, N = Body, T = Interior; a year number follows the letter. The chassis manuals follow their own lead. Many electrical items, like harnesses, are the first items to be installed, especially the interior, as they get covered by panels, headliner, carpet, etc. Lamps, gages etc, may be connected in later steps.
An example is from the 1965 Body Manual (some of the drawings apply to both 64 1/2 and 65 Mustangs). The first sheet, N4-N5-8100, attaches the front bumper to the car after the front valence is installed. N4-N5-8110-1 attaches the fenders and hood hinges; N4-N5-8110-2 attaches the front valence, the grill ?stuff? and hood latch. All this was done after "some" of the electrical wiring was installed.

Each drawing uses "item numbers" to associate an item on a drawing to its reference information in the Bill Of Material. They are in circles (Notes are in squares). The "item numbers" are also an indication of assembly sequence; item "one"? gets installed before item "two", etc. Hardware items (and sealants sometimes) are identified by letters of the alphabet and also shown in circles. Hardware item letters are "usually" in alphabet order, A, B, C (after Z, it?s AA, AB, etc).

Exceptions are normal. A Ford drawing "standard" - isn't. Ford built cars, not drawings.

In all of the referenced assembly drawings above, the fenders were NOT attached, and the door hinges were attached to the body FIRST by the bolts called out on the drawings, with a layer of sealer in between. (The sealer may have "stuck" the hinges to their mounting surfaces loosely with the bolts not fully torqued down and made "adjusting" easier, then the bolts were torqued to spec. A San Jose assembly line worker showed me how hoods and hood hinges were "adjusted" with a rubber mallet on my 66 GT Fastback during half-time at a Super Bowl Party at my house several years back.) Then the empty doors were set into place, and attached to the upper and special lower hinges (they had a spring and a stop) with some sealer and their appropriate bolts. I remember seeing a video of a door on a Ford being installed by being "set in the door frame". There were rubber (or plastic ?) "spacers" used, two on the bottom of the door to the door sill, one (or maybe two ?) on the rear of the door to the door frame. The striker was NOT installed. The "spacers" were designed to compensate for the weight of the door innards, latch, windows and associated mechanisms, for an "empty" door. When done, the door was opened, the spacers removed and the car was ready for painting (plus additional priming first ?) to its final color, hinges and bolts included. The trunk lid, hinges and hardware was installed prior to painting as well, but that is a story for another post.

In addition to this, I stopped at a nearby body shop to swap Christmas gifts (I got a bottle of Cab) with the owner (he and I served on the same class of US Navy Destroyers) and asked him about Mustang door installation. He was unaware of the assembly line method of hinges to body first. He said he usually attached the hinges to the doors first. It's what works for him.

Jim

[HDAshmore]

Jim,

Thank you for sharing such an informative post.  The rubber pieces for gaps was compelling.  If we only knew the composition, size and shape we would be spot on possibly.  Rubber mallet adjustments sound like learned skills over thousands of cars rolling by. 

Thanks for your service!  Army guy to Navy guy, regards to your personal service to all!

Dan in Kansas