Topic: Questions about having a new door tag made.

[tomtri66]

My 1966 Metuchen built Sprint Hardtop is missing it's door tag, but I have the original buck tag.  I am planning on having a replacement door tag made as part of my restoration.  I have searched and unfortunately, have not found a build sheet  .  A couple of questions about missing information:

1. Would it be considered acceptable to use the buck tag build date (A20) as the scheduled build date on the door tag?

2. Would it be better to make an educated guess at the DSO based on what little I know about the history of the car or just leave it blank?

The rest of the information for the tag I have been able to physically verify or is verified by the buck tag.  I realize I may never know the DSO and scheduled build date and I would like hear your opinion on what would be considered the correct way to proceed.

thanks,
Tom

[Pete Bush]

Tom,

Mine is an extreme case, but my door tag is May 10, while my buck tag is June 21.

Looking at your serial number 194xxx and those listed in the Mustang Production Guide usually gives a pretty good approximation:
 
194034 = 24A
194208 = 20A
194709 = 21A
194838 = 26A
194966 = 26A

Hope that helps?

[tomtri66]

Thanks Pete.  I also found similar VIN's on Klaus' 64.5-66 Mustang page that seem to suggest that the buck build date of A20 is probably right on or very close to the scheduled build date for my car. 

What's your opinion on the DSO?  I realize that a guessed DSO can be misleading to someone, but then again a blank one can be too.

[Pete Bush]

The DSO is kind of a loaded question that I purposely dodged.

Let me ask you a couple of questions and maybe you can come to your own conclusion. It’s ultimately your decision regardless of what others think anyway.

Your Sprint currently has an 8 cylinder engine, right?

When you have the new door tag created, will it be for a 6-cylinder or 8-cylinder?

If your reply is a 6-cylinder to match the buck tag, then I believe your goal is to honestly preserve the car even though there is conflicting evidence (engine) that might otherwise confuse a prospective buyer (whenever that day may occur).

If you “guess” at a DSO, then that is misleading. But if you leave it blank, it’s because you honestly don’t know.

Now if you’re going to fudge the VIN number to square with the V-8 engine, a little bit more fudging to invent a DSO really doesn’t matter – does it?

[J_Speegle]

Now if you’re going to fudge the VIN number to square with the V-8 engine, a little bit more fudging to invent a DSO really doesn’t matter – does it?

If he's "fudging" the VIN  the whole date plate question does not really matter At some point he will run the risk of loosing the car and possible a few months/years anyway

[Pete Bush]

Exactly my point...
(but perhaps a little more subtle)

[midlife]

If he's "fudging" the VIN  the whole date plate question does not really matter At some point he will run the risk of loosing the car and possible a few months/years anyway

Ahhh...but the door tag is not for use as a legal Vehicle Identification purpose.  Only the stamped aprons are legal VINs.

[J_Speegle]

Ahhh...but the door tag is not for use as a legal Vehicle Identification purpose.  Only the stamped aprons are legal VINs.

I know what it says on the tag itself - but we continue to get reports of DMV workers tearing suspecting, even when they are the ORIGINAL door tags and correct , suspect door tags and destroying them. And that is just where the stories start.

Never taken a car to the DMV or to the PD/CHP where the worker (normally not a car guys that understands all the little details) does not immediately open the door and look at that tag or sticker.

Certain things I just don't poke sticks at LOL

[Pete Bush]

Unfortunately, things aren’t always black and white. We all wrestle, and come to terms with, the ethical choices we make.
We say we are “restoring” a car, which normally means putting it back to its “original” condition. But how many of us have:

• Replaced a single master cylinder with a dual one?
  Changed the body color?
  Installed power steering where there was originally none?
  Created paint daubs for parts based upon others reports?
  Or the thousands of other choices we make when we get into these types of projects.

Sometimes things are just unknown, and remain so. And we take a leap of faith. Other times we make choices that we know to be incorrect – justified to ourselves for the purposes of safety, or personal preference.

A personal story:
I wanted to trace the history of my car back to the original owner and selling dealer. I bought an original owner’s warranty card off Ebay with the intent of replacing the owner and ID# with the appropriate ones for my car. I hired a private investigator to trace the history with the DMV in Connecticut. I know the car was registered there in the mid-eighties. As it turns out, Connecticut is a non-disclosure state and will not release the information due to privacy laws. I have come to a point where I may never know the original owner or dealer.

I do know that my late father-in-law, Buddy, owned the car in 1986, but that’s as far back as I can go. We loved him dearly and miss him every day. I have considered placing his name on the owner’s card, even though I know he wasn’t the “original” owner. A tribute of sorts, I suppose. Now, I’m certainly not breaking any laws by making such a choice. And it would only provide some measure of personal gratification. But it’s still an ethical choice I must come to terms with. I would be literally re-writing history.

The point is, there are junctures in our lives where we all probably wander into these gray areas to some lesser or greater extent. And justify our decisions in some manner to appease our conscience. The moral boundary of those decisions often lies at that point where our decisions have the potential to do harm to another. Up to that point, there are all different shades of what’s ethical.

[tomtri66]

First, let me make myself clear.  I want to reproduce the original door tag as close as possible to what it was when it came from the factory.  It will have its correct VIN, body color code, Interior code, etc. That was my whole point in asking the question.  I want the car to have as close as I can possibly get to the data tag that it came from the factory.   Even though my car has a modifications, my goal with this car is to keep anything else that isn't modified as close to stock as possible.  I have no intention of trying to mislead anyone, as a matter of fact my goal is exactly opposite.  The question of the DSO came up because I thought leaving it blank would be misleading as would making a guess based on what information I do know.  I have no intention of selling the car, but if I did I will give the potential buyer FULL disclosure.  It is what it is and I have no problem with that.  I feel there will always be a buyer if I keep my modifications tasteful and well done.  My concern is future owners beyond that.  What if in 30 years some other enthusiast is trying to determine what he has now that he owns my car?  I can fully disclose, but I have no control over what the next owner does.

Sorry for opening a can of worms  .  At least it has been an interesting discussion.  I believe I will leave the DSO blank and offer an explanation to any future owners.

BTW, when I was stationed in AZ while in the Air Force, I had an AZDMV inspector look at the base of the drivers windshield and look back at me accusingly and ask "Was this car restored?  What happened to the VIN?"  I had to open the hood and explain to him that in 1966 this is where the VIN was located.  He had no clue.

[Pete Bush]

Sorry for opening a can of worms  . 

No can of worms, Tom. Just trying to illustrate the pros and cons. As I said, it's ultimately your decision.

[tomtri66]

Thanks for the input, Pete.  I really do appreciate it.  It really did help me come to the conclusion that the best way to proceed is to leave the DSO blank.