Author Topic: 64 1/2 June Dearborn - engine bay detailing  (Read 1310 times)

Offline karl71

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64 1/2 June Dearborn - engine bay detailing
« on: November 24, 2022, 06:32:43 AM »
Hi,
I'm Karl from France
Just purchased a 64 1/2 D code 4V made in Dearborn on 4th of june 1964.
I purchased the car from its 1st owner who bought it new in LA California.
It is not a concourse car but it has been restored 9years ago with a stock look.
I planned to make it look as close as it was in 1964.
Of course, some parts have been replaced but I got the original parts (radiator, water pump, 4100 carb, generator, starter...)
I did not plan to repair and install them back in the engine at the moment, maybe later if I can make them come back to life!
I will change hoses and clamps for concourses ones and add yellow battery cover on a new 24F (I know it was originally 22F)
Here my questions:
- I'd like to know what should I add/change in engine bay so it look more period correct
- What about the routing of heater hoses? Any strap between the 2 hoses?
- Any decal that I should add? (battery ok ...etc...)
- The strap that maintain at the bottom of engine bay the ground cable from battery to engine ground is missing, where can I find it?
- The engine bay black color looks too mate for me, am I right?
Thank you for that amazing forum ;)

« Last Edit: November 24, 2022, 11:06:33 PM by J_Speegle »

Offline jwc66k

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Re: 64 1/2 engine bay detailing
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2022, 12:51:09 PM »
Welcome to the forum. Many of the answers to your questions may be found in this forums' "Search" feature (it's listed in the top line of the page). Other answers are documented in the 1964 Mustang Assembly books. I suggest you get a set (I prefer the paper version so I can make notes).
Jim
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Offline karl71

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Re: 64 1/2 engine bay detailing
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2022, 04:07:31 PM »
Hi Jim,
I already did the "search" but found many answers that differs sometimes between old and new posts.
I did not find posts talking about the straps between heater hoses that I could see in the drawings attached in other posts
It's my 1st message here but read the forum since 2012.
Maybe someone who's car is from may or june 64 could help me?

Offline jwc66k

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Re: 64 1/2 engine bay detailing
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2022, 06:05:09 PM »
Karl,
OK. Here goes.
Right hand side spark plug wires should be routed on top of and slightly behind the coil. This will allow a "twist" to the heater hose outlet fitting so it points back sort of towards the shock. It appears your heater hoses are too long. There isn't a page in the 64 Assembly Manuals showing heater hose installation, but there are a couple of pages that have them drawn in.
It looks like all your hose clamps are the wrong type. You should have the "tower" type. See NPD website https://www.npdlink.com/ their stock number 8287-2AK4 (they're date coded 4/64, the closest to your build date).
The only heater strap I found was an aluminum type but it's only for 289 HP engines. The ones you have from the firewall brace "look" OK. I'll let others comment.
You got me confused on the battery ground straps. There is one from the battery ground terminal that goes to the engine near the oil dip stick with a 7/16-14 bolt, and a second strap from the rear of the right hand head (a 3/8/16 bolt) to the firewall (a 14X14 screw). Which are you interested in?
The engine compartment color/shade is semi-gloss black - but it can vary bit. It is not "flat", it is not "gloss". Matte as a shade is not a commonly used term by Ford.
Jim

« Last Edit: November 24, 2022, 06:57:25 PM by jwc66k »
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Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 64 1/2 June Dearborn - engine bay detailing
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2022, 11:51:43 PM »
Guess you have looked at the D code examples in the Unrestored Picture thread. None of them are perfect but they do IMHO offer a fair amount of details to consider and research

Just purchased a 64 1/2 D code 4V made in Dearborn on 4th of june 1964.
I purchased the car from its 1st owner who bought it new in LA California.
It is not a concourse car but it has been restored 9years ago with a stock look.
I planned to make it look as close as it was in 1964.
Of course, some parts have been replaced but I got the original parts (radiator, water pump, 4100 carb, generator, starter...)
I did not plan to repair and install them back in the engine at the moment, maybe later if I can make them come back to life!
I will change hoses and clamps for concourses ones and add yellow battery cover on a new 24F (I know it was originally 22F)

Since we know what the focus is here on this site you will have to choose how each item mentioned will fit in your plans. Too difficult for us to try and determine what your plan is so again "as built" is the easiest way to go at this from past experience.

Going to start with a few and we'll add to them as days pass. Remember today is one of our big national holidays so traffic can be way down or way up today

- Any decal that I should add? (battery ok ...etc...)

Yes at least that one. Of course no one is reproducing, commercially a correct one, material wise nor filling them out like originally done but sure you've seen those threads


- The strap that maintain at the bottom of engine bay the ground cable from battery to engine ground is missing, where can I find it?

There is no grounding strap originally at the bottom of the engine bay. Only a small thin one at the rear of the engine on the passenger side that connects to the firewall. I can see one on the car in the one picture at least. The battery cable that attaches to the battery at one end for the ground would attach to a screw in stud at the side of the block at the bottom on the passenger side below where the generator is mounted.  Guess your describing its attached to something else or location


- The engine bay black color looks too mate for me, am I right?

Don't know that the amount o gloss in the black is outside of the range we see on original cars. Some have been found slightly shinier but others, based on what I can  see in the pictures, isn't something that stand or jumps out to me. Based on what I can see on the screen I think your fine


- Are those bolts for the shock and spring covers painted? If so those should not be

- Easy one would be the front shocks are not finished correctly

- Inner fender panels/aprons to cowl transition panel is not painted as it should be and the edge sharp from a paint brush to finish it off

- Looks like there is a decal on the coil. Originally that would be paint or thick ink and applied with a stamp. In addition the sticker is up side down and likely is dated for a 1970 Ford

- Looks like the dist has Pertronics and the wires do not replicate the routing (twisted around each other) makes it really stand out

- You already made mention of the hose clamps (radiator and heater hoses) fan belt, solenoid,  and other items that are not like originals

- No sealant on the firewall where it was originally. No sealant around the heater hoses at the firewall and wonder about the size of the heater hoses or openings. Appears to be allot of gap around each but maybe that's just a judgment based on the angle 

- No painted tape over the heater motor covering the joint between the two halves

- Trying to identify a hole int he firewall and related details. Is the car a manual transmission car?

- Throttle arm painted?  If so wasn't original but instead phosphate and oil  - P&O 

- Appears to be the incorrect bolts that hold the master cylinder to the firewall. Master cylinder should be painted black

- The retaining hardware for the heater hose strap don't appear to be original. The "rubber straps" were recycled side wall thread from tires. There is a thread on that with pictures

- Hood hinges, springs and retaining bolts appear to be painted black

- Can't remember if we've looked into or discussed but believe there is a possibility that no service decal was applied to the drivers side shock tower - good subject for another thread if someone doesn't find an earlier thread on the subject

- Voltage regular or at least the cover is finished unlike originally done.

That's the first picture (1669132020698) I opened up. Will let others post what they notice and I'll return later
« Last Edit: November 24, 2022, 11:54:01 PM by J_Speegle »
Jeff Speegle

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Offline karl71

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Re: 64 1/2 June Dearborn - engine bay detailing
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2022, 08:09:34 AM »
@Jim and Jeff: Thank you so much for all your remarks!

@Jim:
I think clamps dated 2/64 (year quarters) should me more correct
The ground cable hold down clamp that I'm refering to is the one on the pic below found on svs.com website, don't know if it is correct and where to find it.
Regarding hoses routing, i will go as described in the 65 shop manual and add no strap.
Are the hoses supposed to be white stripe on 64?
Sorry for my english, in France paint can be "mat", "satine" or "brillant" (flat, semi gloss, gloss)

@Jeff:
You wrote:
- Are those bolts for the shock and spring covers painted? If so those should not be
  They are natural finish, shocks bolts a bit rusty, should they all be phosphate & oil?

- Easy one would be the front shocks are not finished correctly
  Do you mean shocks color?

- Inner fender panels/aprons to cowl transition panel is not painted as it should be and the edge sharp from a paint brush to finish it off
  Don't understand sorry

- Looks like the dist has Pertronics and the wires do not replicate the routing (twisted around each other) makes it really stand out
  Yes pertronix...will roll with black tape to be more inconspicuous

- You already made mention of the hose clamps (radiator and heater hoses) fan belt, solenoid,  and other items that are not like originals
  Should solenoid be the brown one? I read sometime brown, sometime black

- No sealant on the firewall where it was originally. No sealant around the heater hoses at the firewall and wonder about the size of the heater hoses or openings. Appears to be allot of gap around each but maybe that's just a judgment based on the angle
- No painted tape over the heater motor covering the joint between the two halves
 I will inquire...

- Trying to identify a hole int he firewall and related details. Is the car a manual transmission car?
  Yes, a top loader 4sp

- Throttle arm painted?  If so wasn't original but instead phosphate and oil  - P&O

- Appears to be the incorrect bolts that hold the master cylinder to the firewall. Master cylinder should be painted black
  Thought it was natural finish with black or zinc cap

- The retaining hardware for the heater hose strap don't appear to be original. The "rubber straps" were recycled side wall thread from tires. There is a thread on that with pictures

- Hood hinges, springs and retaining bolts appear to be painted black
  I thought it was 64 correct - Thought P&O was in 65 or 66

- Can't remember if we've looked into or discussed but believe there is a possibility that no service decal was applied to the drivers side shock tower - good subject for another thread if someone doesn't find an earlier thread on the subject

- Voltage regular or at least the cover is finished unlike originally done.
  I read in threads that it was the correct 64 one (blue print/yellow print/black case)? Am I wrong?

Thank you so much!






« Last Edit: November 25, 2022, 08:12:08 AM by karl71 »

Offline jwc66k

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Re: 64 1/2 June Dearborn - engine bay detailing
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2022, 01:14:55 PM »
Karl,
Yup, clamps dated by quarter. (Reading can be fun. We speak several different versions of English, aka dialects, in the USA. Translating from one to another is a source of "entertainment".)
To determine hardware finish, use the "Mustang Hardware Spreadsheet 64-66" (in the library) by "application" (Excel file name "MHW64-66AP06.xlsx" (the "06" is the revision). You will also find a topic "FINISH CODES - Short List" in the library.
Hood hinges should be natural, but that often leads to rust. A "lite" phosphate and oil treatment (a lower mix of phosphoric acid to water and/or less time in the 190F (90C) water) may be your answer. Hood hinge springs are made from heat treated steel which is a darker finish (a higher acid to water, and/or more time).
Do you have WD-40 available in France?
(Are you in Northern, Southern, Eastern or Western France)?
Jim
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Offline karl71

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Re: 64 1/2 June Dearborn - engine bay detailing
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2022, 04:33:58 PM »
Jim,
I will check the "finish" thread as you mention.
I'm new at 64 mustangs and thought 64 1/2 was a lot different than 66 (I had a 66 concourse one 10 years ago) for example and that hood hinges was painted black instead of P&O
Yes, WD40 is everywhere in stores in France, I must try that P&O process.
I'm in Burgundy (20 miles from Puligny-Montrachet, Meursault or Beaune if you know good wines  ;D)
Karl

Offline jwc66k

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Re: 64 1/2 June Dearborn - engine bay detailing
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2022, 06:31:27 PM »
I'm new at 64 mustangs and thought 64 1/2 was a lot different than 66 (I had a 66 concourse one 10 years ago) for example and that hood hinges was painted black instead of P&O
Apparently 64 Dearborn built Mustang hinges and springs are painted black. Most of the Mustangs around Northern California where I am, were built in the San Jose plant and are phosphated. "Rust" is illegal here -  ;)
I'm in Burgundy (20 miles from Puligny-Montrachet, Meursault or Beaune if you know good wines  ;D)
As I said, Northern California, and you may have heard of Napa Valley, especially its Cabernet Sauvignon (I think we got our grape vines from you guys).
Jim
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Offline J_Speegle

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Re: 64 1/2 June Dearborn - engine bay detailing
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2022, 08:59:10 PM »
You wrote:
- Are those bolts for the shock and spring covers painted? If so those should not be
  They are natural finish, shocks bolts a bit rusty, should they all be phosphate & oil?

Fender and inner fender (spring and shock cover) bolts would all have been P& O

- Easy one would be the front shocks are not finished correctly
  Do you mean shocks color?

Yes that is the easy part though the visible, from this view, part is different from originals. The upper eye is shaped differently to apparently hold the smaller bushing in place and then the bushing itself. Originals do not have that beveled edge around the bushing as shown on yours. Comparison of bushing size below




- Inner fender panels/aprons to cowl transition panel is not painted as it should be and the edge sharp from a paint brush to finish it off
  Don't understand sorry

"Break" between where the body color stops and the black over laps it is different from what would have originally happened. If it was just a mistake (painter not spraying rearward enough then it would not follow the edge of the small panel and it still should have been finished with a brush or produce a sharp edge of black paint


- Looks like the dist has Pertronics and the wires do not replicate the routing (twisted around each other) makes it really stand out
  Yes pertronix...will roll with black tape to be more inconspicuous

If you unwrap one around the other then yes IMHO

- You already made mention of the hose clamps (radiator and heater hoses) fan belt, solenoid,  and other items that are not like originals
  Should solenoid be the brown one? I read sometime brown, sometime black

No black is find its that you have one marked Motorcraft with a 1972 engineering number and the hardware at the posts is different from original. Like above yours in in the upper left





- Appears to be the incorrect bolts that hold the master cylinder to the firewall. Master cylinder should be painted black
  Thought it was natural finish with black or zinc cap


Don't believe so. Black just like others but spilling of brake fluid, poor coverage as well as the elements and 50 years does not leave much original paint but we do have some examples



- Hood hinges, springs and retaining bolts appear to be painted black
  I thought it was 64 correct - Thought P&O was in 65 or 66

Your correct - Sorry for my mistake of not remembering when the change took place


- Voltage regular or at least the cover is finished unlike originally done.
  I read in threads that it was the correct 64 one (blue print/yellow print/black case)? Am I wrong?

Generator equipped cars have never really been a focus for me and the location of this item isn't one that we get allot of pictures of. With that said maybe someone familiar with the voltage regular will post and confirm the details. Looking through my pictures I was only able to locate a restored car with the yellow face printing which may indicate the heavy duty version of the regular while the example in the picture below (your left theirs to the right) which was built and owned by one of our founding members



Hope this all helps
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline carlite65

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Re: 64 1/2 June Dearborn - engine bay detailing
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2022, 09:07:54 PM »
- Appears to be the incorrect bolts that hold the master cylinder to the firewall. Master cylinder should be painted black
  Thought it was natural finish with black or zinc cap.

cap appears to be black plastic. should be domed style painted black. jeff has pics.
5F09C331248

Offline markb0729

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Re: 64 1/2 June Dearborn - engine bay detailing
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2022, 12:36:45 AM »
I've found the unrestored picture threads very helpful for seeing how these cars came from the factory.  Looking at the pictures answered many questions for me regarding my early 65 fastback. https://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?board=63.0
65 Dearborn Built Fastback
Approximate Build Date, September 2, 1964
289 4V, C4, PS, PB, No A/C

Offline karl71

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Re: 64 1/2 June Dearborn - engine bay detailing
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2022, 09:17:01 AM »
Thanks for your comments ;)
Can someone tell me where I can find the bolt and clip that hold the ground cable on the picture (don't know if it is the correct clip)?
I'm preparing an order on NPD and can't find them
I want to replace the oil pressure sending unit too by the one on the attached picture but I wonder what wire I need to connect it
Thank you
« Last Edit: December 01, 2022, 09:23:32 AM by karl71 »

Offline CharlesTurner

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Re: 64 1/2 June Dearborn - engine bay detailing
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2022, 02:10:18 PM »
The battery cable hold-down clip is unique and not reproduced, you'll have to source an original to get the detail correct.


The oil pressure switch in the pic is not correct for a '64.5, it should be the larger one with black housing.
Charles Turner - MCA/SAAC Judge
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Offline jwc66k

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Re: 64 1/2 June Dearborn - engine bay detailing
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2022, 03:08:43 PM »
Can someone tell me where I can find the bolt and clip that hold the ground cable on the picture (don't know if it is the correct clip)?
In previous posts regarding this clip, it was "determined" that that the loop clamp was part of and supplied with the assembly line battery ground cable assembly. There are two listed in the 1964 Mustang Electrical Assembly Manual (AM0003, pg 23), C2OF-14301-b or C4DF-14331-E, and the attaching screw is 31497-S8 (shown on pg 23, same Manual). Ford Car Parts (aka MPC), releases 1968 and 1975, do not state any clamp, and use "Universal" cables as replacements. At this point, the only answer may be contained on the original Ford drawings for C2OF-14301 and C4DF-14301, unless someone took the time to measure the original clamp.
Jim
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