Author Topic: Mid Jan 1968 Dearborn undercarriage paint/primer finishes  (Read 854 times)

Offline adam8888d

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Mid Jan 1968 Dearborn undercarriage paint/primer finishes
« on: November 09, 2022, 03:58:20 PM »
Hi all. As this is the Concourse forum could someone please post me photos of the under carriage  so i would know what color should be black, red or silver ect?
Thank you
« Last Edit: November 10, 2022, 07:48:38 PM by J_Speegle »

Offline jwc66k

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Re: 68 390 gt fastback undercarriage
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2022, 04:39:37 PM »
The information you seek is possibly plant and build date related so please enter it. You might consider including that car info in your permanent info.
Jim
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Offline adam8888d

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Re: 68 390 gt fastback undercarriage
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2022, 05:00:43 AM »
thank you Jim.

Offline adam8888d

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Re: 68 390 gt fastback undercarriage
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2022, 05:11:08 AM »
Thank you Jim. Will this help? 
« Last Edit: November 10, 2022, 05:15:41 AM by adam8888d »

Offline Bob Gaines

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Re: 68 390 gt fastback undercarriage
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2022, 12:30:54 PM »
Have you seen the 68 Dearborn cars in the Unrestored Picture Threads ?
Bob Gaines,Shelby enthusiast, Shelby collector , Shelby concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Offline adam8888d

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Re: 68 390 gt fastback undercarriage
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2022, 06:20:08 PM »
Yes I have and not found what I am looking for. I am thinking that the under carriage is red oxide and all the front end black. Also wheel wells? 

Offline J_Speegle

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Mid Jan 1968 Dearborn undercarriage paint/primer finishes
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2022, 06:56:55 PM »
Hi all. As this is the Concourse forum could someone please post me photos of the under carriage  so i would know what color should be black, red or silver ect?
Thank you

Let us start at the basics

Is there any evidence still left on the car that would help determine these things


Yes I have and not found what I am looking for. I am thinking that the under carriage is red oxide

If I may as is there a reason you think it was painted in a red oxide epoxy primer sealer?



and all the front end black. Also wheel wells?


That would not be typical or what has been documented on other cars at that plant and production period

Well that is a start. Thought we might have visited the subject in the past but didn't find a thread using the search feature so will put together some pictures from unrestored cars - hopefully from the same time period.


PS altered the title so that it reflected the plant and production period. the fact that its a 390 fastback doesn't make a difference for this question and discussion
« Last Edit: November 10, 2022, 07:48:51 PM by J_Speegle »
Jeff Speegle

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Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Mid Jan 1968 Dearborn undercarriage paint/primer finishes
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2022, 12:36:52 AM »
So looked through my collection and samples, when compared to other plants, are limited do to the condition of most unrestored cars and the lack of people taking pictures of those area. Most possibly likely due to the condition and amount of rust :(

I would suggest that you read the article in the Library on Detailing the 69 Dearborn Undercarriage if you have not already done that. The information, as far as color application, overspray from body paint and pinch weld black out will be very similar to 68 at the same plant. IMHO a good place to start

Don't have Marti reports for all my samples so will use the VIN's to at least get us in the neighborhood.  Of course we can not be certain how you car was specifically painted originally but other cars built around the same time appear to be shot, from the firewall rearward with a batch color. Mixture of m epoxy primer base with left over paint from the prior day or shift. As mentioned in multiple threads this typically, prior to 1970, resulted in a gray final look (medium to dark - most often dark) with a blue or greenish tint to an almost black look in some examples.

Below is an example from a car with the partial VIN of 8F163xxx showing a medium gray bluish color in areas where the owner/builder had cleaned away the oversprays and road grime. You can still see some of the exterior color (yellow) on one of the floor ribs





While we are here here is an original picture showing a car built about a month before yours and the amount of body color overspray (very strong) and a close applications with allot of runs from the black out paint application along the rocker panel





As far as front wheel wells much of the painted surfaces will be covered by the sound deadener application applied right near the end of the build with fenders and just about everything installed. Just the opposite from the rear wheel wells where the sound deadener was applied even before the body was painted

When painters at Dearborn painted the exterior they often applied the body color up to, approximately, the rear edge of the shock tower opening. In some cases a little less and on others all the way to the radiator support. When the next painter applied the black to the engine compartment and the face of the radiator support and the front cross member they often/normally continued the application of black paint onto the forward inner fender panels on the wheel well side reward maybe a foot, to the shock tower inset or to where the hood hinges were going to be attached. The rear edge was not masked nor was it straight and the painter stretched or leaned likely during the process standing lever with the body

Here are some examples showing some of the variations I attempted to describe above

Body color to the shock tower insert




8F136xxx example. With a dark exterior color the contrasts are not as great as in other pictures and examples




A ton of body color - not very typical IME but wanted to share since it did happen







Hope this helps
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline adam8888d

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Re: Mid Jan 1968 Dearborn undercarriage paint/primer finishes
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2022, 06:16:04 AM »
This information is great. Thank you. Let me explain. I have extensive knowledge of ww2 Ford GPWs as i have had them in my life from day one of me entering the planet. I am 54 and live in the UK. So as far as having a classic mustang and living were i do. The chances of coming across anything to compare or finding information is second to non. The web is all i have to go by. What i am finding harder to get my head round is Concourse is not concourse but factory correct when it comes to body work. I am also struggling with. Body panels not lining up. If i line them up. The car is not factory correct If i do line them up. The car can be made concourse but no longer factory correct. As for the under carriage. I see mostly Red in restorations, crisp and tidy but looking at factory. Factory seems to have had no interest on what you could not see.

Offline Keith Stem

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Re: Mid Jan 1968 Dearborn undercarriage paint/primer finishes
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2022, 08:48:09 AM »
My April 29 68.5 Dearborn was all black underneath, with white over spray on the floor pan and some under the front inner fenders. I don't remember ever seeing any red oxide, but at 73 and after 54 years with the only Mustang I ever owned I could be wrong. Sorry I did not take any pictures before restoring the car in 2002.

Keith

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Mid Jan 1968 Dearborn undercarriage paint/primer finishes
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2022, 02:23:18 PM »
adam8888d Your welcome and good luck with the project


My April 29 68.5 Dearborn was all black underneath, with white over spray on the floor pan and some under the front inner fenders. I don't remember ever seeing any red oxide, but at 73 and after 54 years with the only Mustang I ever owned I could be wrong. Sorry I did not take any pictures before restoring the car in 2002.

Love the color. Very pretty

Found that often a very dark batch color will look black until you compare it side by side with another panel or sample of straight black.  For the record, I do keep charts and notes, is the April 29th date from a Marti report or the door tag?   As far as red oxide it was typical to find the front frame rails from about the firewall forward painted with that color while the firewall rearward was a different application applied by jets mounted below the moving body over the top of the jets. Do have a couple of cars where the front frame rails application didn't take place  :(

As far as the floors and the "color" there have been a half dozen or so 68 CJ with projected build dates from April described as having red oxide floors on the CJ site over the years but that is another discussion for that period in another tread maybe

 
Jeff Speegle

Anything worth doing is worth doing concours ;)

Offline Keith Stem

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Re: Mid Jan 1968 Dearborn undercarriage paint/primer finishes
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2022, 08:35:53 PM »
Jeff April 29, is from the door tag. Because I have the original window sticker I have never gotten a Marti report, maybe someday I will get one. I use to hang around with the people that raced the car in the summer of 68 and I bought the car in December of 68,  so I never figured a Marti report could tell me anything I needed to know. I have spent a lot of time under the car and I cannot recall ever seeing any red oxide, but maybe it did and I just don't recall.

Keith

Offline J_Speegle

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Re: Mid Jan 1968 Dearborn undercarriage paint/primer finishes
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2022, 10:54:37 PM »
Jeff April 29, is from the door tag. Because I have the original window sticker I have never gotten a Marti report, maybe someday I will get one. I use to hang around with the people that raced the car in the summer of 68 and I bought the car in December of 68,  so I never figured a Marti report could tell me anything I needed to know. I have spent a lot of time under the car and I cannot recall ever seeing any red oxide, but maybe it did and I just don't recall.

Keith

Thanks for the date. Guess I'll put it in the unknown part of the spreadsheet. Could have been built a month before or months after the projected/guess upon date on the door tag. Same issue I have some others but just makes them of very little use as trying to figure out when things and details changed in production at that plant

Enjoy your weekend
« Last Edit: November 13, 2022, 07:50:10 PM by J_Speegle »
Jeff Speegle

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Offline Laurie S.

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Re: Mid Jan 1968 Dearborn undercarriage paint/primer finishes
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2022, 07:33:24 PM »
My original owner June 6, 1968 Dearborn-built 68 coupe has the silvery slop gray paint underneath.  I found that the style steel wheel paint is an exact match.  Tried to attach a photo, but no luck.


Murphy, 1968 Coupe - Concours, Original Owner
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