Topic: Original Factory Availability of Low Profile Rally Pacs for Late 1965 Mustangs

[RRod]

First time posting here .... this looks like the right Forum to ask this question after first using the search engine here and visiting other Forums over the years.

I have a May built 1965 GT Conv "A" Code with the Decor Group (aka Pony Interior) option in Bright Red that my father ordered new in 1965:

76B Body
J     Ext Color Rangoon Red
65   Int Trim Decor Bright Red
12S Date May 12, 1965
32   Ohio - Dearborn Assembled
1     Axle 3.0
6     Auto C4
Deluxe seat belts
Power top
Styled (Rally) Wheels
No Power Steering

Now when my father, who is 90, ordered the car new at the dealership in April 1965 after Ford announced the new GT and Pony Interior options for late 1965 cars, the dealer told him the rally pac option would look like the high profile early versions (also used on Rancheros) and would be black from the factory.   My father rejected that option strictly for cosmetic reasons, and so today the car's steering column still looks somewhat naked.

Over the years I've gotten conflicting information scenarios:

1. The dealer was misinformed and that painted color coordinated low profile rally pacs were being shipped from the factory as early as February 1965 on all cars ordered with rally pacs that had either or both the Decor Interior or GT package (i.e. having the 66 style dash panel).

2. Only very few 1965 GT and/or Decor Interior cars came from the factory with color coordinated low profile rally pacs (if that option was chosen) during the last of months of 1965 production ..... like June, July and Aug 1965.

3. That no 1965 cars, except for K-code units with the GT and/or Decor Interior, shipped from the factory with low profile rally pacs ......... and of the K-Code cars that did ship with low profile rally pacs, those pacs  were all painted black.

Adding to my above confusion is that the two repro mfgs of low profile rally pacs have not offered the 1965 Bright Red painted option (only the 1966 Dark Red color option) and describe the low profile rally pacs as 1966 items in most of their published literature (at least the literature that I've been able to find).

Today, I received a call from one of the mfgs that they are now going to begin offering the 1965 Bright Red color option on low profile rally pacs which good news, but still leaves my original question about the availability back in Feb thru Aug 1965 of the color coordinated low profile rally pacs from the factory unanswered?

Any help would be appreciated in clarifying my 3 scenarios that I've heard over the years.

Thank you.

[CharlesTurner]

Based on original examples, the most common low-profile rally-pac in '65 might have been a black one.  Although, some color-keyed ones have been found, on cars built as early as May of '65.

As for the availability of the low-profile rally-pac in '65, it would appear that it became available shortly after the GT/interior decor group were introduced.  If I had to guess, maybe late April, early May of '65. 

Of course, this conversation is relative to factory-installed rally-pac's only as dealer-installed could be a mixed bag.

[RRod]

Based on original examples, the most common low-profile rally-pac in '65 might have been a black one.  Although, some color-keyed ones have been found, on cars built as early as May of '65.

As for the availability of the low-profile rally-pac in '65, it would appear that it became available shortly after the GT/interior decor group were introduced.  If I had to guess, maybe late April, early May of '65. 

Of course, this conversation is relative to factory-installed rally-pac's only as dealer-installed could be a mixed bag.

Thank you for shedding light on the issue .... My father placed the order in early April, so the dealer can not be faulted for telling it like it was at that time.   A simple case of unlucky timing on my Dad's part.

In any event, I have decided to install the Ford licensed low profile repro rally pac that has "FORD" on the tach face and does not require the additional wire out to the engine coil and is only compatible with distributors still using points (like our car).  Unfortunately, it is only licensed to be offered in black, so now I will have to decide whether to have it color-key painted in Bright Red at the shop or leave it as is in black, which may not look that bad as far as I'm concerned.  My wife who is the primary driver of the car (only about 1,000 miles a year) does not care whether it is black or color-keyed .... just as long as it has a clock, clock, clock.  She does not care about a tach one way or the other .... yes, that is my wife for you.

Does anyone know if the surface finish was the same on the black units vs the color-keyed units (i.e. the crinkle finish)?  My concern is that painting the black unit may smooth out the finish too much (assuming all colors were the same with regards to surface texture).

Thanks again.

[carlite65]

i have changed colors on a number of pacs with good results. first i shot a very light coat of primer. then dusted 3 coats of color. the biggest challenge was disassembling the pac.

[CharlesTurner]

For your car, I think black would be more correct. 

The repro rally-pacs are nice, but there are some noticeable differences when compared to an original.  Have not heard of a version that required an extra wire to the engine bay.  All you need is the rally-pac harness that plugs into the main harness and jumps the resistance wire behind the dash.

[RRod]

For your car, I think black would be more correct. 

The repro rally-pacs are nice, but there are some noticeable differences when compared to an original.  Have not heard of a version that required an extra wire to the engine bay.  All you need is the rally-pac harness that plugs into the main harness and jumps the resistance wire behind the dash.

Thanks on the tip regarding black .... I'm beginning to intuitively feel that way myself since it's a May 65 Build.  I would probably feel different if it was a very late 65 Build like July or Aug 1965.

As for the repro tachs .... the Scott Drake and Blue Oval repro unit dealers tell me they use a more modern air-core movement tach technology that runs a wire out to the coil (with the exception of Blue Oval's Ford licensed OEM repro black low profile unit that has "FORD" on the tach face which I referenced in my earlier posting).  All the air-core movement repros do not have "FORD" on the tach face because Ford has only licensed the Black unit utilizing the original technology for the placement of "Ford" on the tach face.

Here are two links with a video that explains it all much better regarding the differences of the repro tachs and the black-only Ford Licensed tach:

http://store.sacramento-mustang.com/categories.aspx?Keyword=1966%20mustang%20rally%20pac%20oem%20style

http://store.sacramento-mustang.com/1966-mustang-rally-pac-oem-style-p1089.aspx

Here is a photo of the Ford Licensed Repro available only in black that connects exactly like Original Rally Pacs:



Here is the Non-Ford Licensed version (offered pre-painted in different colors) utilizing the air-core tach movement requiring an extra wire out to the distributer or coil:



As for their air-core movement techology, they claim it allows for their units to also be compatible with point-less ignition system converions like Petronix, etc. and perportedly will allow the car to start or run even if the tach fails. They allege that original OEM Factory and Dealer installed Rally Pac tachs can affect the starting or running of the car if the tach fails and then you have to go under the dash to unplug it from the resistor jumpers .... or something like that, which is what they claim I will also have to do if my new Ford licensed Rally Pac tach fails as it uses the original wiring technology (except for an unrelated change to a modern Quartz clock movement).

Any thoughts or shared experiences about true Original Ford Rally Pac tachs affecting the starting or operation of the car when the tach fails would be appreciated.

Thank you.

[midlife]

The input to the OEM Ford tach is a transformer; the guts of the tach read the voltage/current from the secondary coils, which are electrically disconnected from the primary coil.  For the tach to break and require jumpering it means that the input (primary transformer coils) have failed.  This is a relatively rare occurance.

[RRod]

The input to the OEM Ford tach is a transformer; the guts of the tach read the voltage/current from the secondary coils, which are electrically disconnected from the primary coil.  For the tach to break and require jumpering it means that the input (primary transformer coils) have failed.  This is a relatively rare occurance.

Understood .... Thanks very much!

BTW, would the consequences in that rare case be that the car won't run until the tach plug-ins are disconneted?

[midlife]

Understood .... Thanks very much!

BTW, would the consequences in that rare case be that the car won't run until the tach plug-ins are disconneted?

If the primary transformer takes a dump, yes, there would be no voltage to the coil.  You would need to disconnect the tach and reconnect the two leads to get voltage to the coil.

[rockhouse66]

FYI, you can certainly run a Pertonix with an original style Ford Rally Pac if that is what you want to do.  You don't need the version with the extra wire to be able to do this.

[RRod]

FYI, you can certainly run a Pertonix with an original style Ford Rally Pac if that is what you want to do.  You don't need the version with the extra wire to be able to do this.

Interesting .... the supplier of my ordered rally pac claims I can't .... that it might make the tach wander around.

Although I'm happy with using points, I was thinking of someday installing a simple Petronic Generation One unit like on my 65 Corvette (but it's tach is purely mechanical running as a cable off the side of the distributor).

Is there any electrical adapter needed to use a Petronix Gen 1 system with an original Ford OEM tach?

[Murf]

There has been no problem running a Gen I Pertronix in conjunction with a Ford Tachometer for years, and I do mean years, on two early Mustangs that I own and have driven thousands of miles. Once while returning to Illinois from South Carolina the tach in a 66 failed (just had it rebuilt and calibrated before this trip for what that is worth) and it did give me a bit of warning by cutting out for a couple of minutes before quitting along the road at 2:00 AM in Kentucky.  I was able to reach under the dash and reconnect the ignition wires bypassing the tach and complete the trip with no more problems.  A resistor had burned out somewhere in the tach according to the repair person who repaired it at no charge.  So have no fear of a first generation Pertronics in conjunction with an original Ford tach. 
As to your other question, I have a 65 271 HP car with an April 22 scheduled build date with is equipped with a factory tach and clock.  The car is well equipped including the Pony interior and the low profile Pac.  It had an all black rally pac although the interior is green and white Deluxe.  I am certain this tach and clock were installed at the Dearborn plant when this car was built and therefore feel that this option was available during late April built cars as a factory option and would have been available on the car your father purchased had he ordered the rally pac.  Years ago I changed the color of the pac to the off white used on the lower part of the dash simply because it looked as it belonged that way, but it was indeed painted black in its original state.  How long this practice continued no one seems to know so the choice of black or red on your car may require a response from someone who has a car built closer to your assembly date than my April 22 car.  Hope this helps in your search

[cobraboy]

I have a 13th April 1965 K GT with a low profile 8k rally pac that I believe is factory fitted. I have found a compatable date on the rear of the tach. The rally pac is crinkle black, the car has a std interior.
Murf above, knows the car ( Hi John )

[RRod]

Thanks Murf and cobraboy ...... your info is much appreciated.

I believe I was once told that all 65 K-Code cars, regardless of the style of dash gauges, got the low profile pac once they started producing the low profilers (in very late Mar or early April 65 I think), and they were all black.

As for me, I'm leaning more and more to just leaving my new low profile unit black (against the all red Pony Interior) and deal with disassembly and re-painting it later on (if still bothers me cosmetically in a year or two).

Either way, it sounds like I'd be correct with the judges considering it's a mid-May 65 build.

BTW Murf ..... when you mentioned the tach on the trip started to cut out, did you mean the car started to die and would not run?

And thanks for the info on the Gen 1 Petronix .... might also give it a try next year .

[mgmradio]

My June built convert Was ordered on April 28th and has a low profile Rallt pack from tje factory.