Topic: Ground wire, auto transmission oil tube to block attaching order?

[Morsel]

Hi all,

Wondering what the installation order is attaching the ground wire, automatic transmission oil tube, star washer and bolt to the block are. I really can?t tell looking at the assembly manual and haven?t found any pictures either. I would assume it would be ground wire to block, then transmission oil tube bracket, star washer, bolt. But learned never to assume anything

Thanks,

Jason

[jwc66k]

Ha! Ha!
Look at the 1975 Ford Car Parts (aka MPC) service drawing (A71 page 06) and you tell me.
(Note: This applies to automatic transmission equipped cars only.)
It shows a stud, 380818-S (I identified it as a -S8) which is shown to attach the battery ground wire and alternator ground wire, and the AT cooling lines to the block. The stud is not documented nor replaced by Ford service. But by identifying the size of the washers used per the drawing, should/may tell you the threads at both ends of the stud. The washer at the block is 34942-S (I identified it as a -S8) which is a 3/8 inch diameter external tooth lock washer.
The washer at the battery/alternator ground cable is 34808-S (I identified it as a -S8) which is a 7/16 inch diameter split ring lock washer, and the nut, 34670-S (I identified it as a -S8), is a 7/16-14 thread,
The 170 CID I-6 and the 200 CID I-6 engine blocks have a 3/8-16 tapped hole for the ground stud which also attaches the AT cooling lines.
Therefore, stud 380818-S has a 3/6-16 thread at one end and a 7/16-14 thread at the other, hex drive in the center.
The 289 CID V-8 engine blocks have a 7/16-14 tapped hole, so stud 380818-S is NOT used on the 289 CID V-8 block.
However, I have found several ground studs on 66 289 CID V-8 blocks that have 7/16-14 threads at each end, hex drive in the center. It is NOT documented, so I assigned it part number UNK02.
Confused yet? Wait.
A lot of assembly line pictures of V-8 (and I-6) engines being installed show the automatic transmission attached to the engine block. In some, I can see (barely) the cooling lines attached to both. So, back to logic, it would be (from the block out): block, external tooth lock washer; cooling line bracket; stud (torque to spec).
After the engine is installed: alternator ground/battery ground wires; split ring lock washer; nut (torque to spec).
An alternate assembly procedure would be to attach the cooling lines AFTER the engine and transmission are bolted into the car, the battery (cable) and alternator installed. In this case, the battery/alternator ground wires could/may be attached directly to the block (a preferred electrical installation).
Service department installations and hardware used DO NOT always follow the assembly line.
Jim
Ford Car Parts (aka MPC) may be even more incorrect with respect to 200 CID I-6 blocks. The 66 electrical assembly manuals shows the ground cable to the battery being attached to a bolt at the starter.
(Sorry. I seldom pay attention to six cylinder engine stuff. The only six cylinder engine I ever owned was from a Porsche 911 and it was going into my 1969 VW fiberglass dune buggy. I sold it to a guy who needed it and had a lot of money. I then bought a 1500cc VW engine and put a Holly 3110 Bugspray carburetor on it. Cheaper, ran great.)

[Morsel]

Hey Jim,

Thanks for the response, but I'm actually talking about the ground wire at the back of the block that attaches to the firewall. So looking for the order of the automatic transmission oil tube mount, the wire, the star lock washer and then the bolt.

Does that make sense? I got the cooler line bracket and negative battery cable/alternator order worked out, but didn't find pictures or anything for this back ground wire.

Thanks as always,

Jason

[jwc66k]

Jason,
Same approach: block; washer; ground wire; AT filler tube; bolt. The ground is more important then retaining the tube, hence the washer digging into the head and wire. (Wire is then attached to firewall with a .)
Both the bolt and washer are "off" the 66 drawing, but are in the associated Bill of Materials, items 17 (20313-S36) and 19 (34942-S36), ref AM0013, 1966 Mustang Electrical Assembly Manual, pg 34. The bolt referenced in the 64-65 Chassis Assembly Manual for the AT filler tube is incorrect.
I wonder if the tube and engine ground wire for 260/289 blocks were attached differently in the past.
Jim

[Morsel]

Perfect! Thanks as always Jim, appreciate the clarification...

Jason

[J_Speegle]

Just looking through some pictures to respond to some other posts and found unrestored original cars with the ground cable at the engine end NOT between the dip stick tube arm and the block. Guess the order could differ depending on assembly plant but not sure in this specific detail that would apply

Will post some pictures in a little while

[jwc66k]

Just looking through some pictures to respond to some other posts and found unrestored original cars with the ground cable at the engine end NOT between the dip stick tube arm and the block. Guess the order could differ depending on assembly plant but not sure in this specific detail that would apply

Jeff,
" - the ground cable at the engine end" is at the block - CORRECTION - the head (I just looked), and would have the dip stick tube on the bolt first -
Bolt; tube; cable; washer; head.
A review of what a "lock washer" is supposed to do, keep a bolt/stud/nut from coming off. The best type to do that is a spit ring lock washer. An external tooth or an internal tooth lock washer are used for electrical conductivity, in this case a ground, and should ELECTRICALLY connect the ground wire to the head.
But this being Ford, there's no telling what was done.
Jim

[J_Speegle]

Here are some close-ups difficult area to see unless your really trying to get a picture of the area.



Here happens to be a 66 San Jose manual example where it appears the ground was attached to the other, lower hole at the back of the head

[jwc66k]

Here are some close-ups difficult area to see unless your really trying to get a picture of the area.



Here happens to be a 66 San Jose example where it appears the ground was attached to the other, lower hole at the back of the head

You can't see much of the washer in question, and the last picture is "missing" the transmission filling tube.
Jim

[J_Speegle]

Added to my picture posting description for the manual transmission example and that its ground is not using that particular hole but another lower one

[Morsel]

Ha, this was exactly what Phill B. and I were talking about last night on this subject that there were San Jose examples where the ground cable used the other head hole to the left and wasn't attached where the dipstick tube was. Interesting, guess I better find another bolt

Thanks,

Jason

[lancelot66]

Mine is located the same as in Jim's example: back of the head and lower, as the picture shows. Attaching a pic of the grounding hardware setup at the block, underneath the alternator. I don't have the split lock washer in here, however. An oversight to remember to remedy, next time I'm underneath the car...

[J_Speegle]

.................Attaching a pic of the grounding hardware setup at the block, underneath the alternator. I don't have the split lock washer in here, however. An oversight to remember to remedy, next time I'm underneath the car...

Though off thread a picture of that assembly installed is shown in the Late 66 San Jose C Code Coupe- Unrestored Picture Thread first post in the Unrestored Picture Thread section of the site

[jwc66k]

Attaching a pic of the grounding hardware setup at the block, underneath the alternator. I don't have the split lock washer in here, however. An oversight to remember to remedy, next time I'm underneath the car...

That's the "stud with no name", 7/16-14 at each end. For spreadsheet documentation purposes, I named it "UNK02".

Mine is located the same as in Jim's example: back of the head and lower, as the picture shows.

The automatic transmission fluid level tube length makes using the lower 3/8-16 tapped hole in the head "difficult" if not impossible. There is always the "possibility" of both threaded holes in the head being used, but has yet to be seen.
Jim

[jwc66k]

Though off thread a picture of that assembly installed is shown in the Late 66 San Jose C Code Coupe- Unrestored Picture Thread first post in the Unrestored Picture Thread section of the site

My "Reading" is that the picture confirms "UNK02" and the battery ground is the last cable to be installed, and no washer is visible.
Jim