Topic: Hood pin holes in radiator support

[AJ]

Wondering if   ALL   69/70 Shelby fastbacks had hood pin holes in the radiator support. 

I?m putting nice donor support in my late-Feb car.  Donor support is correct date but does not have hood pin holes.  The shop has template to drill proper holes but want to confirm before drilling. 

Thanks
Adrian

[Bob Gaines]

Wondering if   ALL   69/70 Shelby fastbacks had hood pin holes in the radiator support. 

I?m putting nice donor support in my late-Feb car.  Donor support is correct date but does not have hood pin holes.  The shop has template to drill proper holes but want to confirm before drilling. 

Thanks
Adrian

I assume that the original radiator support has already been replaced so as not able to go by. Most 69/70 Shelby's did not have the holes. I always thought it was a a early late thing but I just double checked several non radiator support replaced 69 /70 Shelby's  Jan -June 69/70 build with no hood pin holes that are part of my collection. I believe some were built from the factory with the holes however when ever I see them on a 69/70 Shelby I start looking for radiator support replacement. In the case of not having anything to go by it is best to default to the more common way things were done.  Maybe Jeff S. has a picture of a car built near when yours was built. It is good that you asked . 

[AJ]

Thanks for checking Bob.   As you correctly guessed, i had no existing reference because mine was replaced sometime prior to 1979 when i got the car.   

[K-HESS]

I would have thought that the holes would have been present on all of the 1969-70 Shelby fastbacks since they started as a 63C-Mach1 which came standard with hood pins. The convertible was a 76B deluxe interior car to start so it may not have received the hood pin holes but on the other hand it is also possible that the convertibles started out as a GT model which would have come as standard equipment with hood pins. Although Metuchen built cars would have an HP stamping for hood pins on the buck tag I have not seen the same HP stamping for Dearborn cars.  I have a Dearborn built 1969 GT convertible and the buck tag has a GT stamping but does not have an HP stamping. The Dearborn buck tags I have seen have much less information in comparison to Metuchen tags so would assume the ones bucking the body at Dearborn would have been more dependent on the broadcast sheet. Would be interesting to see what information can be found on original Shelby buck tags from both body styles.

[69GT350H]

My Mid April GT350 does have the holes and to the best of my knowledge the support has not been replaced.

[Bob Gaines]

I would have thought that the holes would have been present on all of the 1969-70 Shelby fastbacks since they started as a 63C-Mach1 which came standard with hood pins. The convertible was a 76B deluxe interior car to start so it may not have received the hood pin holes but on the other hand it is also possible that the convertibles started out as a GT model which would have come as standard equipment with hood pins. Although Metuchen built cars would have an HP stamping for hood pins on the buck tag I have not seen the same HP stamping for Dearborn cars.  I have a Dearborn built 1969 GT convertible and the buck tag has a GT stamping but does not have an HP stamping. The Dearborn buck tags I have seen have much less information in comparison to Metuchen tags so would assume the ones bucking the body at Dearborn would have been more dependent on the broadcast sheet. Would be interesting to see what information can be found on original Shelby buck tags from both body styles.

Yes it would be interesting but quite a tall order to see what information can be found on a original Shelby buck tag regardless of body style. Apparently you are not aware that it was standard practice for AO Smith which was the conversion company contracted by Ford/Shelby to remove the buck tag prior to the assembled front clip being lowered on to and secured to the car. The tag was somewhat in the way and could cut skin during the attachment process. The tag was ripped off leaving screw and piece of metal or just the screw . Other times it was unscrewed leaving just the hole (another thing to replicate when installing a rad support). A small fraction of 69/70 Shelby production buck tags were left in place. They are cool to see one when you find it on a 69/70 Shelby but very much a rarity.

[J_Speegle]

Interesting question and one I've net heard until recently. Of course on 95% of the cars this is a detail that is fairly hidden from view so it will not show up on most pictures taken of these cars. Then add to it the fairly large number of radiator supports that have been replaced over the years and the idea that its likely IMHO that someone adding a radiator support would not add the holes since they would not be seen - just a bit lazy or a who cares if you can't see it sort of mind set

Can offer that its not an early- verses late thing

Earliest/lowest VIN with holes was in the low 100's
Latest/highest VIN with holes was in the 3000's

Of the pictures of bare radiator supports on 69 and 70 Shelbys almost all of them had the holes. Of the ones that did not some of those are the result of suspect since the supports had been replaced. Of the remain couple so far they are falling into a similar production range. Not sure if this was due to a production problem, a short period production change or just mistakes possibly made by the same worker for a short period of time before it was caught and corrected.

Let me assemble some examples and the results and report back 

Will look to see how many buck tags I have also. Only found one in this first group of cars I looked through and it did not have a HP stamped in it - early car.

[J_Speegle]

Took some time to assemble some data. Guess we should also make mention that there were two holes on each end of the radiator support on those cars with the feature. One for the hood pin and one for the cable attachment.

Couple of pictures showing the holes and locations of them




Below is a list of VIN's (missing the last digit) of my findings. The ones followed with an "N" are ones without holes. All cars are sportroofs and there is a mix of unrestored and restored cars so it is unkown which may have had prior (to taking the pictures) repairs or replacement of the radiator support.

48002x
48013x
48016x N
48055x
48083x N
48112x
48119x
48133x
48143x
48176x N
48184x N
48195x N
48198x
48202x
48203x
48257x N
48299x
48305x
48308x

[AJ]

Jeff. Wow thanks for the big dig.  Would you agree your sample size and findings are enough to conclude both with & without hood pin holes was possible.   Perhaps technically not wrong either way?unless vin-specific evidence or knowledge was known about a particular car?s born-with info

[Coralsnake]

You may add 1088 to list original support with holes

[AJ]

Found this historical photo of one of the 69 prototypes (2337).   Shows with holes visible.  Not suggesting a prototype as part of data base?but fun part of conversation.

[J_Speegle]

Jeff. Wow thanks for the big dig.  Would you agree your sample size and findings are enough to conclude both with & without hood pin holes was possible.

At this point no. My examples (sport roofs) without holes can and may be all cars that have had some work done to the front and the pattern does not reflect a supply problem or a possible worker issue. May be just, in some cases, so if that is it the question if one should include a detail in your restoration that reflects something Ford didn't want to happen. Been discussed many times. Just my thoughts on the subject at the moment

  Perhaps technically not wrong either way?unless vin-specific evidence or knowledge was known about a particular car?s born-with info

Would suggest that like a bunch of things this is not a stand alone detail and should be considered with an examination of radiator support attachment welds and sheet metal date codes.