Topic: 1967 SJ Mustang Front Bumper Bracket Hardware

[J_Speegle]

As often happens one question leads to another question or the discovery of a "new" detail. In a related discussion the question was asked about the mounting hardware for the front bumper bracket hardware and that the Assembly Manuals show a combination of two washers (one smaller and more larger diameter) as well as the attaching bolt. While looking at 67 San Jose unrestored examples I started collecting the pictures of this detail from dozens of examples through the production year and could not find one that appeared not to have been removed (in a number of cases the nylon zip ties were still in place) and found that they all had only one washer.

Will post VINs and some pictures in the next post. I'm not including any Shelby's since we know those were removed  and reinstalled but invite other input from the membership from similar undisturbed examples so we can see where this leads


67 NJ discussion I was referring to
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=23517.msg146772#msg146772

[67gtasanjose]

Though my Nov. 2, 66 built example's bumper was known to be removed at least 3-times...I found only a lock washer and a bolt (no flat washer) at all 4 bolts taken off the car at disassembly this latest time. I also noticed the assembly manual shows (and the AMK kit has) a flat washer for the rear position. I chose to leave that washer OFF of my build since other pictures Jeff had (that I could see this bolt in), also did not have the flat washer too.

[J_Speegle]

Looked at what I collected and offer the following findings

Cars found with the single washer built at San Jose during 67 production ranged from approx first of November 1966 through the mid May 1967

Did find one example built near the end of June with the double washers possibly suggesting that San Jose may have had a very late change in their earlier practice but we would need more examples to make that call.

All are unrestored examples and a number of them still have the zip ties installed on the round bumper bracket arm. Pretty much impossible to have removed the brackets and leave the tie in place. A few to share

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The late example with the double washer that had a possible build date of the end of June 1967.

9-

[67gtasanjose]

Zip ties, eh?

Does anyone have the specs on those?

[J_Speegle]

Zip ties, eh?

Does anyone have the specs on those?

Guess we really haven't cover the whole zip tie the turn or marker light wire (67-69 at least) to the outer front bumper bracket. Only have one that I believe was standard size for 69 (bumper bracket and  trunk wire loom application) and it measures approx 6 1/2" long  3/16" wide. Opaque in material and no name, numbers or maker visible on tie

Don't recall ever removing one from a 67 and saving it

[Bossbill]

I gather we need a new thread on the 67 Shelby as those brackets where probably not installed at all at SJ.

[67gtasanjose]

Guess we really haven't cover the whole zip tie the turn or marker light wire (67-69 at least) to the outer front bumper bracket. Only have one that I believe was standard size for 69 (bumper bracket and  trunk wire loom application) and it measures approx 6 1/2" long  3/16" wide. Opaque in material and no name, numbers or maker visible on tie

Don't recall ever removing one from a 67 and saving it

Looked at what I collected and offer the following...

...unrestored examples and a number of them still have the zip ties installed on the round bumper bracket arm. Pretty much impossible to have removed the brackets and leave the tie in place. A few to share







The late example...
...a possible build date of the end of June 1967.

Revisting the HARDWARE aspect of the zip ties, The two pictures shared earlier, is this typical installation across the model year (and San Jose builds ONLY)?  -or- Does this then apply to other build locations and/or model years as being typically how we would see the zipties placed?

[J_Speegle]

Revisting the HARDWARE aspect of the zip ties, The two pictures shared earlier, is this typical installation across the model year (and San Jose builds ONLY)?  -or- Does this then apply to other build locations and/or model years as being typically how we would see the zipties placed?

After spending some time looking over 67 pictures I choose to remove  my earlier post rather than edit it.  I believe there is a chance that the zipties may be original to the application because we have examples of plants in other years doing similar things but we need to not be so quick to accept them as typical until we locate (if they are out there) more examples. Checking the examples I posted earlier are from later (possibly May 67) example

Didn't find any examples but of course not as many (ever) enough pictures of this rarely focused on area of the cars.

As a side note did not find any examples from 68 San Jose with the ties - even on the hand full of really well preserved cars

[67gtasanjose]

After spending some time looking over 67 pictures...
...I believe there is a chance that the zipties may be original to the application because we have examples of plants in other years doing similar things...
... we need to not be so quick to accept them as typical until we locate (if they are out there) more examples...
...Checking the examples I posted earlier are from later (possibly May 67) examples...

Thanks for doing this research Jeff. This sounds a lot like the very good concept of "not adding paint marks" (as an example ,of mistakes we can make) until we have more evidence of their use.
In my Members Build thread, we also have (for just another input) a 67-68 MCA Gold Car judge suggesting he hasn't ever seen them used. Of course, the zip ties are not listed in the Assembly Manuals as well.
I think it best to leave them off at this point in time.

[ruppstang]

I would not say that the zip ties were never used but I can see no practical reason for them.

1. It actually causes more wire in the fender well.

2.The hanger clips provide a more logical direct route.

3. Zip ties would cause more time in disassembly for repairs.

4. More time and cost on the assembly line for something that was unnecessary.

Just some thoughts

[Bob Gaines]

I suspect the zip ties may have been a temporary fix to hold wire in place for missing clips in the same way we see various clips or screws used to hood down the radiator support seal as a fix for missing staples to hold it in place.

[J_Speegle]

As mentioned I took notice and considered the possibility since it was similar to practices done in other years for the marker lamp wiring loom routed in the same area. At this point yes it appears to be someone (post plant)  "making things better or neater"

Thread I posted related to the practice I was reflecting on

http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=23612.msg147229#msg147229