Topic: Correct head for an early U code car

[SeaPig]

Hello folks
I recently acquired a U code car with a build date of March 29, 1964. It has a C4DE Block but unfortunately, someone had put a D5DE head on it sometime in the past. I would like to get Back as close to original as possible, and am “assuming” I should try to source a C4DE head. The little kicker is, it has a C3DE Exhaust manifold on it. Would it be possible Dearborn might have originally put a C3 head on a C4 block during that early production run?
Thank you in advance for any light you might be able to shed on this.

[Coralsnake]

Im not an expert on casting numbers for six bangers, but the numbers you are referencing are engineering numbers, so yes the could be correct.

Try to find an original car as a resource.

[jwc66k]

First, welcome to the Forum.
You need a quick education on the Ford part number system of the 50's, 60, and 70's.
The first letter is the decade the part was formally recognized by Ford, designed is a more common definition - "B" = 50's; "C" = 60's; "D" = 70's; etc.
The second is a number and the actual year of that decade.
The third letter is the car line the item was designed for - "A" = full size Ford; "B" = Fairlane; "D" = Falcon; "Z" = Mustang.
The fourth letter is the engineering group responsible for that items design - "E" = engines.
Any car line's design group could use any other car line's item without any changes to it, including decade or year.
So, a C3DE item could be used on any car's design without change, in your case a 170 I6.
Back to your question. A C4DE head may not exist. The 75 edition of Ford Car Parts (aka MPC) did not identify casting numbers so that is of little help.
I would assume the D5DE head is a smog (emissions) head.
After I finish breakfast, I'll look in the 60-68 MPC.
Jim
The 60-68 MPC was little specific help. What I did deduce is the head you need has a casting number of C3DE - possibly.

[J_Speegle]

I looked through all the plants and unfortunately the engineering numbers are at the rear of the intake runners and because of that don't show up in pictures generally. Firing order is on the forward section. Looks like the casting date is at the very end (back) of the runner

Might try (if they are out there) some of the Falcon sites and ask there. May even try one or more of the shops that focus on them also

[SeaPig]

You guys are very much appreciated. The relearning of the engineering codes is awesome. The tip on going to the Falcon sites sound like a great idea.
I found a very large cylinder head and block application section chart that lists a C4DE-D head, along with four for 1963 listed as C3DE-C, C3DE-D, C3DE-G8, and C3OE-C
As a cobbled together re-skinned Falcon with an assembly date of March 1964, i could certainly understand if a factory was putting C3 heads on a C4 block.
Wanting to stay as true to form as I can, I do not want to guess on the head to get the right pieces together to make the vehicle as original as I can.
Thank you very much for the input.

[67gta289]

... i could certainly understand if a factory was putting C3 heads on a C4 block.

Part numbers were not incremented based on time (model year change), they were incremented based on design change.  When a new model is being designed, as it goes from conceptual to detailed engineering, there is a phase where "carry over" parts are identified.  When a carry over part is identified, there is no money allocated to make any engineering changes.  If you are the one later on that finds out that the carry over part will not work, and funding is required to modify it, you are not very popular  

Theoretically, the financial guys would love it if they were still putting C3 heads on cars today!  They would have saved a lot of engineering and tooling costs.  A bit of hyperbole but it does make the point.

I'll close with an example.  My C7 car has a C6 block but also had B7 (1957) distributor points.  Plus some C5, C4, C0 and so on parts as well.  If the old design works, use it.

[jwc66k]

Part numbers were not incremented based on time (model year change), they were incremented based on design change.  When a new model is being designed, as it goes from conceptual to detailed engineering, there is a phase where "carry over" parts are identified.  When a carry over part is identified, there is no money allocated to make any engineering changes.  If you are the one later on that finds out that the carry over part will not work, and funding is required to modify it, you are not very popular  

Theoretically, the financial guys would love it if they were still putting C3 heads on cars today!  They would have saved a lot of engineering and tooling costs.  A bit of hyperbole but it does make the point.

I'll close with an example.  My C7 car has a C6 block but also had B7 (1957) distributor points.  Plus some C5, C4, C0 and so on parts as well.  If the old design works, use it.

Well said.
Jim

[Bossbill]

When all else fails, consult Hollander and other interchange manuals.
Although they don't care about correct as much as "what will work", it is more information.

Hollander
* 6-170 Interchange #613
* Identification C3DE 6090C
* Some heads have 1/8, some have 1/4 threads on temp sensor. Interchange sensor with head.

Auto Interchange Systems (Ford 50-65)
* 6-170 Interchange  #55, #65
* Identification  C3DZ 6090C, C3DZ 6090E, C3DZ 6090G,
C3DZ 6049J ID No C3OE 6090C
Comet 61-64 170, 200
Fairlane 62-64 6-170, 200
Falcon 61-64 6-170, 200
Ford Tr 61-64 6-170
Meteor 62-63 6-170, 200

[SeaPig]

Lots of food for thought. After reading here for a few months, I finally got up the nerve, so to speak, to make a first post. It ended up being everything I thought it would be. Thank you for all the contributions to it.
V/r
Michael