Topic: Relationship/Similarities Between Engine ID Tags and Decals

[J_Speegle]

The following few posts were separated from another thread about a specific application so that we could dive deeper into the relationship between the engines codes and details found on engine (aluminum) ID tags and the paper ID stickers found on these engines.

[cobrajet_carl]

Looking at my files it appears that I've not found or received any additional buildsheets for 70 H codes.  Not sure that the engine code (if a dual letter) on the aluminum tag is the same as the stick on label

Pretty sure it is and it confuses me as to what the paper decal would look like. Here are three metal tags, a 69 351W, 70 351W and a 70 Boss 302.
The 69 says it was assembled at the Ensite plant, the 70 at the Windsor plant (those are the same according to Marti) and the Boss 302 at the Cleveland plant. So why a 69 351W paper tag would have a C1 in the lower left corner the same as a 70 Boss 302 is confusing to me.

[J_Speegle]

Do we need to start a new thread just focusing on comparing engine ID (aluminum ) tags and the paper ID tags?

Seems that we may be getting away from this specific request of the OP. Right now it appears that is a dead end until we find out something new or have some originals turn up

[cobrajet_carl]

Might spin it off into a discussion about the metal tags. It is clear that the font and style of the Boss tag is different from the Windsor tags so their respective assembly plants were almost certainly different.

Maybe someone will get lucky and find a roll of unused engine decals from 69-70

[J_Speegle]

Might spin it off into a discussion about the metal tags. It is clear that the font and style of the Boss tag is different from the Windsor tags so their respective assembly plants were almost certainly different.

Maybe someone will get lucky and find a roll of unused engine decals from 69-70

Done and if we discovered a roll of decals they might be from a 6 cylinder application or from another application not used in a Mustang 

Task now is to find a few or more examples where we have a visible/remaining original paper ID tag and a metal tag from the same car.  Lets try and keep it 70 or maybe include 69's also to start out with. If we need to we can expand and move the thread to a more general area.

[RoyceP]

The problem is the metal tags are original and the paper tags have been incorrectly reproduced. For example the only reproduction FE paper tags available have the engine plant "L" but all of the FE's were built originally at Dearborn Engine Plant.

[J_Speegle]

The problem is the metal tags are original and the paper tags have been incorrectly reproduced. For example the only reproduction FE paper tags available have the engine plant "L" but all of the FE's were built originally at Dearborn Engine Plant.

Understand. Let's see if we can just start for one year or both as mentioned above) and see if we can get some documentation and examples from unrestored cars as a place to start.

As part of the exercise, Royce, what on the engine tag you posted indicates the engine was assembled at Dearborn?

And in turn, what on the metal tag helps use determine what would have been printed on the paper tag?

[cobrajet_carl]

Understand. Let's see if we can just start for one year or both as mentioned above) and see if we can get some documentation and examples from unrestored cars as a place to start.

As part of the exercise, Royce, what on the engine tag you posted indicates the engine was assembled at Dearborn?

And in turn, what on the metal tag helps use determine what would have been printed on the paper tag?

Unfortunately it would appear that each assembly plant used slightly different tag layouts and fonts. The Windsor and Cleveland tags have the assembly plant code on the metal tag but the Dearborn and Lima tags do not. The one consistency is that the build sheet engine code is the same on the metal tag. And on the paper decal as well, I would think.

[RoyceP]

Carl has it right. The engine metal tag was intended to be the long term ID for buying replacement parts for the engine. The paper tag was for quick identification on the assembly line. It was understood that paper would not last more than a little while exposed to weather, oil leaks, anti freeze spills etc. The Build sheet, the paper engine tag, and the MPC all have the matching engine codes for each model year / engine size / application clearly differentiated.

Here's the page for the engine tag decode from the Master Parts Catalog. Notice that the only plants identified are Windsor and Cleveland - they never added the Lima plant, and it was assumed that if it was blank it meant Dearborn.

This is what led companies like ECS to make "reproduction" paper tags that are in fact not accurate reproductions of anything because they all have an "L" as the plant code. I made a sheet of them (adhesive backed) with the proper "D" and then used a Scotch packing tape dispenser to cut them as if they came off a huge roll.

[J_Speegle]

Here's the page for the engine tag decode from the Master Parts Catalog. Notice that the only plants identified are Windsor and Cleveland - they never added the Lima plant, and it was assumed that if it was blank it meant Dearborn.

Which line on the page denotes the engine plant on  that center page? Headers appear to be cropped off

[RoyceP]

None of them - the MPC doesn't care which plant an engine was built at because any of them were only built at a single location for any given model year / engine ID tag number.

Which line on the page denotes the engine plant on  that center page? Headers appear to be cropped off

[cobrajet_carl]

No engine assembly plant info is given on the chart of tag numbers. It is surprising that even for the 1975 version of the MPC the only engine assembly plants listed are Cleveland and Windsor. The metal tags for FE and six cylinders are somewhat different than the Cleveland and Windsor tags. As far as what is on the left side of the paper decals, I guess we will have to hope for some survivors to pop up.

The pictures are of 250 six cylinder engine tags for the 69 and 70 model years. Different format than the Cleveland and Windsor tags but the engine ID numbers are as expected. They show how the engineering change suffix went from S to A as described in Marti's tag book. Six cylinders might have been assembled at Lima?

[J_Speegle]

This is what led companies like ECS to make "reproduction" paper tags that are in fact not accurate reproductions of anything because they all have an "L" as the plant code....

Just to be fair - Just checked their web site and for 1969 - 1973 engines they supply engine ID stickers with "C' as the plant code for a number of engines

I too have made the ones that are not available and as need arises. Not that many details so not that hard to do compared with some of the others.

So how do we proceed? 

[cobrajet_carl]

So how do we proceed?

For now I am going to make my own decals with just the correct engine code since I am not sure what is correct for the left side of the decal for Cleveland and Dearborn assembled engines. Perhaps D over timing is correct for Dearborn and C over timing is correct for Cleveland but not sure enough to proceed. The lower case C1 for the original 351W decal is interesting but maybe that was Windsor plant specific?

I'll assume the worker tore the decal off the roll in the wrong place...

Oh and I will use a slightly purple-ish red for the letters/numbers instead of black

[J_Speegle]

For now I am going to make my own decals with just the correct engine code since I am not sure what is correct for the left side of the decal for Cleveland and Dearborn assembled engines. Perhaps D over timing is correct for Dearborn and C over timing is correct for Cleveland but not sure enough to proceed. The lower case C1 for the original 351W decal is interesting but maybe that was Windsor plant specific?

Well maybe we can locate original engine ID stickers from 70 and even 69 here as see where that leads us. Of course if we can find those and the aluminum one this will help determine and or document details

I'll assume the worker tore the decal off the roll in the wrong place...

Appears to be the case. Have seen a number where a sticker included the first smaller letters at the end  or had them at the beginning and the end