Topic: 67 Horn Wire Discussion

[specialed]

NOTE: The following first few posts were separated from an earlier thread focusing on hood differences. We have separated it in an effort to clean up the original thread and focus on a recent request for a review of the subject. Unfortunately the original pictures referred to in this first post are dead links now and can't be viewed

Mr gaines look at middle pic of first post & note the black paint on rh horn blue wire I been trying to document on 67s.  when you look into the grill from outside the car ford didn't want other colors showing thru like that blue wire standing out with all black background. In 68 & up ford hada black plastic sleeve covering that rh blue wire but this didn't matter on the lh horn wire since it always got black tape covering it & holding the 2 lh horn wires together but rh is 1 single wire -.

I have seen some black paint on this lh horn wire on many cars in junkyards & recently took photos of a 67 unmolested Shelby & when I  held the wire to take a photo the old dryed paint fell off & from all the heat over the  years this wire gets brittle & when it flexes the paint falls off easily & maybe why restorers never notice it but on 69-70 Dearborn cars anyway of which I mainly work on ford blackened out inner headlite buckets oil cooler & a/c lines lines so when you look into the grill its all black.

[Bob Gaines]

Mr gaines look at middle pic of first post & note the black paint on rh horn blue wire I been trying to document on 67s.  when you look into the grill from outside the car ford didn't want other colors showing thru like that blue wire standing out with all black background. In 68 & up ford hada black plastic sleeve covering that rh blue wire but this didn't matter on the lh horn wire since it always got black tape covering it & holding the 2 lh horn wires together but rh is 1 single wire -. I have seen some black paint on this lh horn wire on many cars in junkyards & recently took photos of a 67 unmolested Shelby & when I  held the wire to take a photo the old dryed paint fell off & from all the heat over the  years this wire gets brittle & when it flexes the paint falls off easily & maybe why restorers never notice it but on 69-70 Dearborn cars anyway of which I mainly work on ford blackened out inner headlite buckets oil cooler & a/c lines lines so when you look into the grill its all black.

How embarrassing for you . Touching someone else's property and damaging it. At least you manned up and admitted it. I hope you are not proud of yourself. Like they say it is only original once. I suppose you can't say it is a unmolested Shelby now.      

[specialed]

Well the whole car wasn't unmolested as it had a color change but the grill area was unmolested & that Shelby will be restored someday & you know the Shelby & the owner & unlike (someone I know who is avoiding this issue when asked) the owner wanted to know if the paint was on the front side only of the wire thinking someone may have spraybombed the wire while laying against the rad support years ago But after we took the wire off horn to inspect it we seen paint all the way around the wire AND I GOT A PICTURE but don't know how to post it. So any OTHER 67 guys seen this ?

[J_Speegle]

.................... the owner wanted to know if the paint was on the front side only of the wire thinking someone may have spraybombed the wire while laying against the rad support years ago But after we took the wire off horn to inspect it we seen paint all the way around the wire AND I GOT A PICTURE but don't know how to post it. So any OTHER 67 guys seen this ?

Never seen that on an original car Ed. San Jose did black out the horn wires for a short while but in 65 and they used what looks to have been the firewall sealant (allot thinner/lighter product than your use to seeing on 69-70's)  to black out those wires.

Sounds like the typical PO with the rattle can. Sure if you look enough your find a mounting bolt or two used on the radiator support face with some black on it also

[Bob Gaines]

yes jeff I thought that somebody spraypainted the grill area to & paint got on rh horn wire but I have seen several cars that looked original with black paint on that wire to hide blue showin thru grill .  Anybody got some good pics of 67 rh horn wire on an original car?

I know it is something that I will looking closely to confirm from now on. It makes sense (The idea not the Spec Ed ). Now we need to add more observations to substantiate the claim. there are already enough people thinking Spec Ed is crazy as it is. We don't need anymore .

[67gtasanjose]

Well the whole car wasn't unmolested as it had a color change but the grill area was unmolested & that Shelby will be restored someday & you know the Shelby & the owner & unlike (someone I know who is avoiding this issue when asked) the owner wanted to know if the paint was on the front side only of the wire thinking someone may have spraybombed the wire while laying against the rad support years ago But after we took the wire off horn to inspect it we seen paint all the way around the wire AND I GOT A PICTURE but don't know how to post it. So any OTHER 67 guys seen this ?

Did we ever decide what (or IF a) paint or sealer was used to camouflage the Blue with Yellow tracer Horn wire?

[J_Speegle]

Did we ever decide what (or IF a) paint or sealer was used to camouflage the Blue with Yellow tracer Horn wire?

Have not seen anything in the last 8 years to indicate to me that the wires were blacked out or covered at any of the plants in 67. There was some of this in earlier years at San Jose (haven't looked into the other plants yet) during specific time periods.  Often these wires can get painted by PO's when they rattle can the radiator support in an effort to "freshen" things up in the engine compartment which may have created some observations. 

There are some that have suggested that maybe the reason the wire color were changed to the blue was an effort to make them not stand out as much as the early Mustang coloring. On other years and some applications you can fine wire sleeves or wrapping that produced the same purpose. Will dig out some pictures and examples from 1967s

[J_Speegle]

Once I started stacking up the few examples, hard to see the wiring in pictures below the horn or through the grill, thought it might be best, for the moment at least, to focus on your immediate needs and focus. Nov 66 San Jose.

Can spread out more as need be


From 7R1156xx we see that the drivers side wire is wrapped with the plastic wrap up to about 2" short of the plug and the passenger side is unwrapped. In both cases I can make out the color and stripe of the wire on the exposed areas of the wire even though they are dirty and haven;t been wiped off. A problem with some other pictures

Its lucky I found a picture were the grill and horns were out of the way

For those that notice the location and placement of the seal for the AC lines in the top picture- that's another discussion for another thread

[67gtasanjose]

Thanks for the split. I recalled the discussion and was focusing on these wires and their correct layout today. It helps tremendously to see at least one example that appears to have been untampered  (and it is a GT harness as well PLUS what looks to be an EARLY Convenience Group optional wire OR Power Top wire taped to the main harness).
Nice picture(s). Very helpful.

If I understood SpecialEd correctly, he was under the impression that the RH horn wire(s) he has seen with the  "blackout treatment", that the treatment (coating) may have been a brittle, flakey substance, similar to the firewall sealant (the sealant sprayed onto the harnesses and bolts penetrating the firewall). In this example with pictures shared here today, we definitely see no signs of overspray on the radiator support or the wire.
I wouldn't likely rule out the use of nor the seemingly obvious conclusion of "no coating used on any examples" if the possibility that only the wire (all by itself) was shot and over time, the coating became brittle and falls off. In that scenario, we MIGHT not find any or very many examples with easily seen signs of it left. Food for thought anyways.

Because evidence suggests NO USE on enough examples, the clear choice would be to leave it OFF of my build at this time.
This was an unanswered nuance that I recalled from the discussion a few years ago and thought it a good topic to revisit.

[67gtasanjose]

Off Topic but noticed also in this image:
Assembly Manual for Factory AC cars suggested the installer to wrap the harness a couple inches each side of the lower condenser mounting ears. This example has no such tape on it. Mine did not either. Those look like sharp edges that might cut through the tape and wiring insulation and with no fusible links on the main power feed...what could possibly go wrong here?!!! I think I'll add the tape to mine anyways!

[midlife]

Horn signals are fused via the fuse box, so no need for a fusible link.

[Bob Gaines]

Once I started stacking up the few examples, hard to see the wiring in pictures below the horn or through the grill, thought it might be best, for the moment at least, to focus on your immediate needs and focus. Nov 66 San Jose.

Can spread out more as need be


From 7R1156xx we see that the drivers side wire is wrapped with the plastic wrap up to about 2" short of the plug and the passenger side is unwrapped. In both cases I can make out the color and stripe of the wire on the exposed areas of the wire even though they are dirty and haven;t been wiped off. A problem with some other pictures

Its lucky I found a picture were the grill and horns were out of the way

For those that notice the location and placement of the seal for the AC lines in the top picture- that's another discussion for another thread

Also a topic for another thread is the identification of a assemblyline condenser with the holes down the front and the assemblyline dryer with the band clamp completely around the middle.

[J_Speegle]

Off Topic but noticed also in this image:
Assembly Manual for Factory AC cars suggested the installer to wrap the harness a couple inches each side of the lower condenser mounting ears. This example has no such tape on it. Mine did not either. Those look like sharp edges that might cut through the tape and wiring insulation and with no fusible links on the main power feed...what could possibly go wrong here?!!! I think I'll add the tape to mine anyways!

Only going to ask one question to get an idea if we need a new thread. What is the date of that assembly manual page since it may indicate or suggest that it was a detail added during production and in turn explain why some may or may not have the extra wrap .

[67gtasanjose]

Only going to ask one question to get an idea if we need a new thread. What is the date of that assembly manual page since it may indicate or suggest that it was a detail added during production and in turn explain why some may or may not have the extra wrap .

Revision due to Speed Control cable routing so not much help. Below images from the page on 289's that show the condenser but when you flip the page to a 390 engine, the scanned image has the same dates and reasons for the change, January 27, 67 date was the previous revision but who knows why.

[J_Speegle]

Revision due to Speed Control cable routing so not much help. Below images from the page on 289's that show the condenser but when you flip the page to a 390 engine, the scanned image has the same dates and reasons for the change, January 27, 67 date was the previous revision but who knows why.

Yes really late date (6/15/67) on that page with a ton of prior changes listed. Almost 50