Topic: Louver Hinges on the roof: Pic Request

[1970 Snake]

Angela, I am thinking of a couple of possible reasons this is happening but would need good pics to assess and validate my thinking. If you can not post to the site maybe you could email them to me as the issue has perked my interest, not that I don't have a lot to do myself on my own car LOL.

[Angela]

If you could PM me your email address I'd be grateful to send you a few pictures to attach. I snapped a few images Saturday afternoon.

In short, the original louvers don't visually appear to be bent or distorted. However, when the hinges are laying flat on the roof, there is an air-gap between the louver gasket and the glass. The air-gap is very small on the passenger side, and as much as 0.075-0.100" on the driver's side. Maybe this is how many original louvers fit???

I should make sure it's clear that while the louvers are OEM ford, the weatherstrip/gasket is reproduction. Perhaps the original gaskets were thicker?

[Angela]

Attempting to upload pics.... (I haven't tried in months.... usually fails...)

[Angela]

It's a miracle! Pic uploading worked! Woo hoo!

[1970 Snake]

Angela, looking at your pictures it looks like you do not have the SS window trim installed overtop of the aftermarket rear window seal gasket, is that the case? As the aftermarket seals are thicker and DO NOT fit very well under the stainless steel trim. I have heard of some having to grind/cut the window rubber gasket to get the SS trim to fit. To that end without the trim on the gasket, it may be holding the rear glass at a slightly different height on the DS than on the PS hinge area.

Also your pictures are not really clear but it looks like the rubber gasket around the outside of the louver is deformed somewhat where you have the cardboard as compared to the other side??

I believe you indicated a some point earlier that you replaced the roof skin and put new holes in the roof to hold the hinge grommets, as I vaguely remember you asking about measurements for hinge screw hole locations quite some time back??

Again not very clear in the pictures, but it looks like your DS hinge is sitting slightly farther up the roof edge/bevel/ramp than the PS and if not in the same location would cause that hinge to sit slightly higher. I guess to that end I had indicated to post some pictures of the hinges installed with the screws in and tightened down, because if I remember correctly the screws fit very snuggly in the hinge counter sink and define exactly where that hinge is located on the roof and you do not have screws in the hinges, so it is hard to tell how the hinges sit when actually tightened down with the screws.

Not sure if the foregoing has helped any, but may open some discussion, clear pictures of the hinges exactly like Brian's slat 12 picture with the hinges secured in place with the screws would also be more helpful.

[Angela]

Thanks for the feedback! I'll snap more pictures and see if they are any clearer.
You're correct, the SS trim is not installed. I merely put the rear glass in to (a) verify the glass still fits after replacing the roof and (b) set the louvers in place to reinstall the louver hinge rivnuts. Since I still have hundreds of hours of body work/paint, I wasn't planning to reinstall the SS trim. Do you believe I need to do so to fit the louvers correctly?

I am seeing the same concerns with the repro louver weatherstrip.... it fits terrible. Actually, IMHO it doesn't fit correctly in any way shape or form. I'm not aware of an alternate source for this weatherstrip, other than whomever NPD is getting them from. My original weatherstrip fell apart in pieces.

I'm not quite sure what you're seeing wrong with the DS louver gasket (at the roof) verses the PS gasket. Could you explain further? I don't see any physical differences between the two gaskets, aside from the obvious fact that they're shaped differently and I do not believe they can be swapped from one side of the car to the other.

I'll circle back with more pictures.

[1970 Snake]

Angela, from your response and IMHO, I would not try to fit and locate the louvers without the chrome trim in and a good outer trim gasket on the louvers, else you may not locate the hinge rivnuts correctly, yours does not look uniform and laying out flat like it should possibly someone set the louvers on edge and on that gasket when storing deforming it.

Because the pictures Brian posted are so clear and look correct, I have use #12 to document some of the things I am trying to explain. BTW in my previous comments I was not talking about a difference between DS and PS louver hinge gaskets, it was the location of the hinge on the roof angle ramping the hinge higher or lower slightly depending where the hinge sits on that angle/ramp.

[Angela]

1970_Snake:
Thanks for continuing to take time to help me. This entire roof replacement situation has been a nightmare and I wish I could get the louver rivnuts located and be done with this. Ugh. Anyway, I have some questions based on your last reply:

(1) What shape do you believe the louver gasket *should* have, VS the shape my gasket does have?  Perhaps I could ask Brian to please lift up his louvers and snap a picture of his gasket? :-)
(2) Are you aware of a source for the louver gasket, other than NPD? I bought the NPD gasket, which IMHO is close to impossible to install, regardless of how much lubrication you use
(3) I was extremely careful in measurements and welding the molding clip pins onto the replacement roof. I'll lay the SS molding in place as you suggest, yet it's not clear to me what this accomplishes. Perhaps you're suggesting that the molding provides a mechanism to align the louvers square to the window opening?
(4) Could you elaborate as to what you see in my original louvers which is distorted? Man, they look great to me! I laid them on a flat surface and they don't seem to be distorted in the horizontal plane.

I'll take additional pictures today.... I did not have time to do so yesterday.

[Brian Conway]

Have these two pictures and happy to help out with a more specific shot ?  Brian

[ericisback]

69 Dearborn

[Angela]

Brian, thanks! I'm embarrassed to admit I'm not familiar with the foam strip attached to the glass.
Question:
Could you post a close-up photo of the gasket and let me know how thick it is? (measurement from louver surface to the edge of the gasket which contacts the glass)


Ericisback, thanks to you as well for the many photos!  I am very surprised to see ~1/2" gap between SS trim and the louvers, at the edge which attaches to the roof. I'm going to double check this measurement on my car, yet I don't think I can allow 1/2" gap in that location without the bottom edge of the louvers extending onto the trim near the trunk.


I laid my louvers onto a second hardwood floor to see if my louvers "rock" or appear bent/distorted in some way. They do not rock... they lay perfectly flat on the hardwood floor. I don't understand the comment (1970_Snake) about my louvers not appearing uniform.

[Brian Conway]

The assorted foam and rubber hose bits were my attempt at ' rattle ' control.  That issue was resolved.  The measurements you are asking for; 5/8" from metal window slat body to rubber window gasket at the top between hinges.  For the sides at the bottom ; the metal window slat body actually contacts the rubber window gasket and measures 42" across at that point. 

[1970 Snake]

So just to be clear I did NOT say your louvers where distorted, I said that it looked like your louver rim seal/gasket was possibly deformed, and made this assumption on the pictures you posted which are thumbnail posts that can not be opened up in MS Paint, and from what is visible in your pictures to markup for you, your louver rim seal gasket does not lay flat like the one in Brians picture or in my louver seal picture. I also gave you very specific details using Brian's picture to show how the louver seal sits down flat against the glass and fits against the SS window trim, which to me is needed to correctly locate the louvers on the rear window to locate the rivnets.

My car did not have louvers or a rear spoiler from the factory, so I sourced OEM parts and installed them 30 years ago and positioned the louvers with the hinges mounted on the louvers by placing the louvers on the rear glass and using the SS trim and the flat louver gasket as my positioning guide and then marked the rivnut locations through the hinge holes with a drill of the hole size. Then removed the louvers drilled pilot holes and then rivnut size holes, brushed some primer/body paint on the bare metal holes, installed the rivnuts and screwed down the hinges with gaskets, and the louvers fit perfectly.

I am not sure why you are so caught up in putting the rivnut holes into the roof before you have installed the window trim, I would finish the body and paint work and install the trim and then install you louvers. You are trying to position and install your louvers prior to installing the SS trim which is the perfect locator reference. To compound your efforts you are using an aftermarket glass gasket which has been proven time and time again does not fit properly and you also using an aftermarket louver seal which you yourself have seriously complained about. So with all these issue creating variables, and the information provided, I am having trouble understand why you are still not understanding what could be causing you louvers not to be sitting correctly.

I have again posted Brian's picture with my comments circled, and I have also posted pictures of my louvers and the rim seal shape laying out flat and giving the 1/2" to 5/8" spacing referred to in the thread and you are very surprised at?? Also a couple of pics of my present rivnut install. This will be my last post on this topic and hope the information provided by myself and others will help you resolve your problems.
 

[Angela]

Brian, thanks for posting additional pictures of your gaskets and for providing measurements.

1970_Snake, thanks for taking the time to provide further details. Based on the additional pictures from Brian, I now understand what you were trying to show me concerning the louver gasket. My eyesight isn't very good and thus I previously could not discern the gasket laying flat on the glass, which you were trying to point out.

I agree with your comments about fitment of reproduction gaskets. Unfortunately, sometimes I can't locate NOS parts when I want them. I believe it's possible I'll locate NOS window gaskets, but I've never seen an NOS louver gasket for sale. If anyone knows of or happens to see a source, please let me know.

I will give your suggestion (to fit the louvers after paint) some thought. I was hoping to install the rivnuts prior to paint simply because it's not outside the realm of possibilities for a drill bit to slip and damage an expensive paint job.

Thanks again to everyone who took the time to provide pictures, measurements and suggestions.

[RichK1]

Attempting to upload pics.... (I haven't tried in months.... usually fails...)

Did you get this problem figured out ?
I have opposite issue ,I have a gap at the back of the hinge