Topic: Does date stamping new parts create ethical issue?

[evantugby]

Concours community,
During my research I ran across any older post where someone was using a company that was etching Carlite logos onto new glass with the correct date stamp for when the car was built.  I am a bit surprised to read that people are date stamping parts that are not era-specific parts.  What do concours guys think?  Any other commonly known practices of other parts being date stamped? 

What say you?

[CharlesTurner]

The same could be said for any reproduction part placed on a car or any aftermarket paint/sealers.  Simply stated, it's just another part of restoration and what is acceptable for the final goal.

[Bob Gaines]

The same could be said for any reproduction part placed on a car or any aftermarket paint/sealers.  Simply stated, it's just another part of restoration and what is acceptable for the final goal.

+1. I don't see a difference with reproduction parts in this respect.

[evantugby]

The same could be said for any reproduction part placed on a car or any aftermarket paint/sealers.  Simply stated, it's just another part of restoration and what is acceptable for the final goal.

Would you be okay with K-code owner buying a 289 block and stamping his vin number on the engine to claim it is original numbers matching? 

[carlite65]

absolutely not imo. i would consider that fraud.

[Bob Gaines]

Would you be okay with K-code owner buying a 289 block and stamping his vin number on the engine to claim it is original numbers matching?

I would feel the same way that I would feel if someone claimed one of the Holley reissue carburetors that get date stamped with correct numbers was original to their car. Typically there are little tells that separate the genuine from the reproduction.

[jwc66k]

+1. I don't see a difference with reproduction parts in this respect.

One word - "Pookie".
Nuff said.
Jim

[CharlesTurner]

Would you be okay with K-code owner buying a 289 block and stamping his vin number on the engine to claim it is original numbers matching?

No, of course not.  I understand the point of making similarities, although something like a glass etching is generic, such that the part is not tied to any particular car.

An engine VIN stamp is very unique, only to 1 car and in the case of K codes/Shelbys, can add 15% or more value.

[J_Speegle]

In your example you presented is the item identifiable as a more modern part due to design or other differences?  If not is the question based on the fact that the glass or metal is not 50 plus years old?

Every restorer makes choices during a build. They are influenced by time, availability and resources ($$$ and other things). Rarely do projects start with a car so complete and in such great condition they will not need any additional parts, other than the original parts they left the factory with, that they will not require something to get it to the level the owner wants a car. If so then normally these are left as is and referred to as unrestored or some other label.

We each make these choices and the challenge for some can be how they will describe the finished project since any label can be interpreted differently by different people. Bottom line for me at this point this is a difficult question to answer as it depends IMHO on a ton of things and would differ from project/car to project. Examples abound and discussing each will take up pages only to reach in the end, I believe, that it's a personal belief and no two of us will be exactly at the same point on everything


Hopefully we each make the best choices for us as well as the vehicle and we're honest with ourself about those choices.

[evantugby]

absolutely not imo. i would consider that fraud.

are you referring to the new glass etched with a date stamp from July 1965, or the vin number added to a 289 block or both? 

[carlite65]

the block.

[evantugby]

In your example you presented is the item identifiable as a more modern part due to design or other differences?  If not is the question based on the fact that the glass or metal is not 50 plus years old?

Every restorer makes choices during a build. They are influenced by time, availability and resources ($$$ and other things). Rarely do projects start with a car so complete and in such great condition they will not need any additional parts, other than the original parts they left the factory with, that they will not require something to get it to the level the owner wants a car. If so then normally these are left as is and referred to as unrestored or some other label.

We each make these choices and the challenge for some can be how they will describe the finished project since any label can be interpreted differently by different people. Bottom line for me at this point this is a difficult question to answer as it depends IMHO on a ton of things and would differ from project/car to project. Examples abound and discussing each will take up pages only to reach in the end, I believe, that it's a personal belief and no two of us will be exactly at the same point on everything


Hopefully we each make the best choices for us as well as the vehicle and we're honest with ourself about those choices.

My perspective is that someone restoring a car who date stamps components will pass them off as original from the dated era.  This too adds value to the car.  What if someone were to replace major metal panels on a car and date stamp all of them to pass the car off as original sheet metal?  It seems meant to deceive the public.   

[Bob Gaines]

My perspective is that someone restoring a car who date stamps components will pass them off as original from the dated era.  This too ads value to the car.  What if someone were to replace major metal panels on a car and date stamp all of them to pass the car off as original sheet metal?  It seems meant to deceive the public.   

Or it could be perceived as trying to bring the car back as close to original as possible. If someone doesn't make the claim that it is something it is not then no fraud has been perpetrated.If someone restores a car to look like new by your standards the restorer is trying to deceive the public because the car looks like new even though it is not. If someone does a better job of making a part or assembly more original within the parameters of restoring the car then he should be applauded not automatically assume deception.Of course that is as long as restorer doesn't make unfounded claims.   

[69GT350H]

I had my car judged at a local small show and I got pinged as my rear window has many small chips from roof gravel hitting it. (this was before I purchased it when it had been rear-ended and sat for many years with the rear end hanging just out from the carport). the person doing the judging told me I should replace the glass. I told him it is the original glass with all the proper date codes on it. He told me that I can purchase new glass and have it properly date stamped/etched for the car.

So, which is better? Keep the old original glass that is as old and worn as the rest of the glass on the car but has little chips (hardly noticeable from 5 feet) or new glass and have it marked to give it proper date coding with logos?

I've kept the old chipped glass as it is the original glass to the car and matches the look of the rest of the original glass on the car.

[krelboyne]

I had my car judged at a local small show and I got pinged as my rear window has many small chips from roof gravel hitting it. (this was before I purchased it when it had been rear-ended and sat for many years with the rear end hanging just out from the carport). the person doing the judging told me I should replace the glass. I told him it is the original glass with all the proper date codes on it. He told me that I can purchase new glass and have it properly date stamped/etched for the car.

So, which is better? Keep the old original glass that is as old and worn as the rest of the glass on the car but has little chips (hardly noticeable from 5 feet) or new glass and have it marked to give it proper date coding with logos?

I've kept the old chipped glass as it is the original glass to the car and matches the look of the rest of the original glass on the car.

Reproduction glass, even with an added 'date code' will be very obvious to a Mustang enthusiast. Keep your original at least until you can find a better suitable dated used one.