Topic: Upper / Lower Control Arms: Buy new or restore originals?

[evantugby]

Gents,
I'm in the process of restoring my lower control arms.  I need some assistance with getting this "tang" to catch again when putting back together.  I can't get it to grab and hold due to the ball joint spring compression.  Any tips/tricks?

[CharlesTurner]

After the rivets go on, should be able to just tap it in a bit. 

[evantugby]

After the rivets go on, should be able to just tap it in a bit.

Thanks Charles. 

Couple follow up questions: 

1) is it best to remove the ball joint by bending out these “tangs” seen in picture 1 or by breaking the spot welds in picture 2? 
2) Upper and Lower control arms were 1/2 to 2/3rds painted with black paint.  Were they dipped in black paint or sprayed?
3) Which paint would be best for use?  An oil base enamel? 

[CharlesTurner]

Thanks Charles. 

Couple follow up questions: 

1) is it best to remove the ball joint by bending out these “tangs” seen in picture 1 or by breaking the spot welds in picture 2? 
2) Upper and Lower control arms were 1/2 to 2/3rds painted with black paint.  Were they dipped in black paint or sprayed?
3) Which paint would be best for use?  An oil base enamel?

The lower plate can be removed by bending the tabs.  You'll ruin the control arms by trying to separate the spot welds on the large bottom section.

Control arms were dipped.  Any acrylic enamel paint would be fine.  Some choose to tape a line and use spray paint, getting heavy on the application to produce runs that simulate the dipping process.  If you choose to go the dipping method, there are ways to do with without having to buy a large amount of paint... such as filling a bucket with water and then add paint to the top.  It's something that takes some trial/error to figure out.

[evantugby]

Charles,
Thank you sir.  Once I get rivets in place on my UCA and LCAs and bushing pushed in place I'll be ready for paint.

[Bossbill]

The lower plate can be removed by bending the tabs.  You'll ruin the control arms by trying to separate the spot welds on the large bottom section.

Control arms were dipped.  Any acrylic enamel paint would be fine.  Some choose to tape a line and use spray paint, getting heavy on the application to produce runs that simulate the dipping process.  If you choose to go the dipping method, there are ways to do with without having to buy a large amount of paint... such as filling a bucket with water and then add paint to the top.  It's something that takes some trial/error to figure out.

There are positives and negative to leaving the plate in place. There is a bunch of rust, scale and dirt that gets in there and can't come out unless they are separated. A die grinder with a carbide ball can remove the spot weld. Now you can really clean things up.
The bad is that after you take it apart you have to weld up the hole you made and emulate the spot weld. You don't have to weld it back to the large plate.
I think the weld was a simple way to keep everything together before the rivets were set.
You can do this with bolts.

[evantugby]

There are positives and negative to leaving the plate in place. There is a bunch of rust, scale and dirt that gets in there and can't come out unless they are separated. A die grinder with a carbide ball can remove the spot weld. Now you can really clean things up.
The bad is that after you take it apart you have to weld up the hole you made and emulate the spot weld. You don't have to weld it back to the large plate.
I think the weld was a simple way to keep everything together before the rivets were set.
You can do this with bolts.

Bossbill
Thank you for this information.  I have a couple sets of Uppers and Lowers I am restoring.  One set is for my kar.  On another set I did remove that weld and disassembled everything.  Good to know that I don’t necessarily need to weld it back in place although I probably will.

Let me ask you guys another question:  Should I press out and reinstall the spring saddle bushings?  I ask because my new repo spring saddle bushings are not concours-correct.  What is the downside to not replacing my original spring saddle bushings? 

[Bossbill]

The main issue with welding it back together is the difference in metal thickness.
Getting the thick plate hot enough to accept a weld without melting the much thinner metal is tricky stuff. A TIG could do it. An induction welder as well. Both would take practice. If you fail you will create a big mess, which may why others tell you not to try this.
I found that getting my fake weld puddle to look right was difficult enough without getting into welding these vastly dissimilar thickness metals.

As for the pivot, you have to take a piece of tubing, cut it to length so that it fits tightly inside of the pivot saddle area and then cut out the sides so that it forms a C, insert it next to the bushing -- and THEN press it out. The press setup is awkward.
There isn't enough strength in the saddle to press out the bushing without additional support.

[JohnB]

The main issue with welding it back together is the difference in metal thickness.
Getting the thick plate hot enough to accept a weld without melting the much thinner metal is tricky stuff. A TIG could do it. An induction welder as well. Both would take practice. If you fail you will create a big mess, which may why others tell you not to try this.
I found that getting my fake weld puddle to look right was difficult enough without getting into welding these vastly dissimilar thickness metals.

As for the pivot, you have to take a piece of tubing, cut it to length so that it fits tightly inside of the pivot saddle area and then cut out the sides so that it forms a C, insert it next to the bushing -- and THEN press it out. The press setup is awkward.
There isn't enough strength in the saddle to press out the bushing without additional support.

Preheat the thicker plate, and it would act like a thinner plate. Done it in my ordinary work as a welder.

[Bossbill]

I hadn't thought about pre-heating -- but the socket end of the ball-joint is heat treated.
Perhaps heat just the area in question with a oxy/acetylene torch? I'm a hobby welder so I don't pretend to know enough about what temperature to get the thick plate to weld this. In the end does the weld perform any function since the bolts and rivets should accomplish this?