Topic: '65 GT came with Borg-Warner T10 instead of Toploader

[drummingrocks]

Hi everyone, I recently bought a '65 GT coupe.  It's fully disassembled, with a lot of parts and pieces in boxes, but is definitely a factory GT.  Being a GT, it was built later in the 1965 model year, but the door tag is missing so I can't be sure of the exact build date. 

One surprising thing was that the car came with a Borg Warner T10 4-speed with the sharply bent shifter handle.  I did go through the boxes and found the correct Toploader shifter with the more rounded handle and shift boot, which confirms that the car had a Toploader when new.  When were the Borg Warner T10s phased out in favor of the Ford Toploader? 

Is a Borg Warner T10 worth anything? 

[jwc66k]

Based on "Ford Car Parts" (aka MPC) all 65 Mustangs were equipped with Toploaders. Because of the demand of 4 speeds in 1966, T-10 transmissions were intermixed in production.
Jim

[gjz30075]

Is the case and tailshaft cast iron or aluminum?     That'll determine most of its worth.

[drummingrocks]

Is the case and tailshaft cast iron or aluminum?     That'll determine most of its worth.

99% sure it's cast iron, but I'll check it today for numbers on the case.

Also, does it use the same bellhousing, clutch fork, etc. as a Toploader?

[jwc66k]

You can do your own research by downloading Ford Car Parts, 75 edition (aka MPC):
https://www.squarebirds.org/Manuals/1965/1965-72FordPartsTextCatalog/
It consists of 45 files and requires about 430mb of file space. (The paper version takes about two feet of shelf space.)
Jim

[steve_f]

Is the car a San Jose built car? I can tell you that my 1965 GT fastback (and a few others on this forum) has a Borg Warner T-10. I think the sharp bend shifter handle sounds too early for a GT though. What is the VIN sequence?
Steve

[drummingrocks]

Thanks for the link, Jim.

The number on the case is T10B-1.  The tailshaft is T10H-1A. 

It's a Dearborn car, VIN #5F07A729870. 

[drummingrocks]

[Hipo giddyup]

No ID tag on it? This would have been on the right hand side I believe. Attached is a picture of my T10 from a Sept. 64 Mustang (65 model year of course) with its tag stamped HEK-M. It looks different than your example, with its wider bell housing mounting pattern (later style) and where the shifter bolts to the tailshaft. From this observation, I am betting it is not for a Mustang, maybe Falcon?? I have seen these trannys go from $400-$1000 depending on who needs it of course. The profit from selling this one can go into a correct Toploader.    I'm sure others will chime in..

[JKWilson]

One surprising thing was that the car came with a Borg Warner T10 4-speed with the sharply bent shifter handle.  I did go through the boxes and found the correct Toploader shifter with the more rounded handle and shift boot, which confirms that the car had a Toploader when new.

Just so you know, the shifter assembly mounted on your trans is not for a Mustang. Neither the shift box nor rods. In addition the tail shaft housing is wrong. The Mustang mounting holes for the shifter are towards the rear of the tailshaft housing. The handle does looks like a '64 era as already stated. Dunno what it is originally for, just what it isn't! If I had to guess I  say there's a good chance it was from a Fairlane/Comet or even a small block Galaxie.

There is no "toploader shifter/handle" or T10 shifter/handle. They are the same for either trans. The difference is in the shifter rods. T10's were interspersed with Toploaders until at least Jan '66 production depending on the plants. My experience is primarily with Metuchen cars, with my own Oct '65 build GT (Metuchen), coming equipped with a T10 and a lifelong friend whose Jan. '66 GT coupe (also Metuchen), coming with a T10.

Toploaders are well, arguably the top dog for Ford trans. The T10 gets an undeserved bad reputation though. Sorry but this is gonna offend a few people but... those that poo poo them quit frankly don't know diddly about transmissions in general or of Ford's history of the use of the T10. Properly rebuilt and with a non-worn out or improperly adjusted shifter they work fine and are a stout, reliable trans.

[drummingrocks]

Just so you know, the shifter assembly mounted on your trans is not for a Mustang. Neither the shift box nor rods. In addition the tail shaft housing is wrong. The Mustang mounting holes for the shifter are towards the rear of the tailshaft housing. The handle does looks like a '64 era as already stated. Dunno what it is originally for, just what it isn't! If I had to guess I  say there's a good chance it was from a Fairlane/Comet or even a small block Galaxie.

Thanks for the information--I was kind of afraid of that.  I just knew the shifter rods didn't look like anything I'd ever seen on a Mustang before.  I'll probably shelve this transmission and look for either a Toploader or a Tremec 5-speed.