Topic: Small block power steering hose strap to shock tower - 67 All Plants

[krelboyne]

I just checked my son in-law's 11-09-66 SJ coupe C code with PS. It has no straps or holes.

If I were to guess I would say some time in 67 the were enough problems with PS hoses touching exhaust Ford decided to add the straps. I guess we need to find the earliest date with the straps.

Makes sense. Wonder if there is a technical bulletin? Straps show up in the 1968 assembly manual.

[67gta289]

I finally found the picture of my original plastic fastener.  You should see a small indented circle at the center of the head.  Same thing as you see on Deuce's post two prior to this one.  The metal variety is perfectly flat.  Hard to distinguish unless it is a close up or the lighting casts a shadow in the right location.

[196667Bob]

Deuce : Thanks for Posting your info on the Strap and fastener. With yours and Marty's info, we can now say that, at least at San Jose, the Straps were added some time between 11/09/66 and 11/30/66.

Thanks again,

Bob

[Deuce]

Deuce : Thanks for Posting your info on the Strap and fastener. With yours and Marty's info, we can now say that, at least at San Jose, the Straps were added some time between 11/09/66 and 11/30/66.

Thanks again,

Bob

Bob, Thank you.

I deduced the same from reading all of the posts in this thread:  For the San Jose plant, the window is narrowed to between 11/09/66 and 11/30/66.

My car also has factory AC and Thermactor.  With all of those hoses running around in the engine compartment, I thought that maybe the PS strap has something to do with keeping all the different hoses in place. 

However, as raised elsewhere in this thread, the PS strap is likely there to keep the PS hose away from the left exhaust manifold.  Which runs extra hot with Thermactor.

[67gta289]

Do you have, or can you get, pictures and dimensions of your fastener's "barbed" end ?

I looked when I posted the picture, but could find neither a picture nor the actual part, unfortunately.  I'll keep looking.

[67gta289]

Maybe you'll have better success.

I think I might just have.  Upon further review of the 1965-72 MPC, I found some hits on 3C696, power steering hose strap.  But only as part of power steering kits.  I included pictures of the C7AA-3C696-A and C8OA-3C696-A as part of two different kits.

Also for some reason I searched for 3C523 (instead of 6C523) because the 3000 series is associated with steering.  Lo and behold I found C7OA-3E523-A. The exact same part is listed in the 1960-68 MPC. 

Then I Googled C7OA-3E523-A and found a discussion in, of all places, here...http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=11041.0

[196667Bob]

John : Good find, and great idea to try changing the "6" to a "3" - makes sense.

When I Posted that I had gone through all of my MPC's with "no luck", it was before Scott had Posted the illustration that showed the Group Numbers ; yet even then, the "6C523" wouldn't have appeared. Also, I apparently didn't look closely enough at the PS Kits in the 1965-72 MPC, which might have at least provided a clue. In any case, great "digging" and perseverance on your part.

A couple of interesting observations, which might explain how I "missed it" in the 1965-72 MPC. In going back to it to try to find out what the symbol next to the two "Clip" listings in the C8OZ Parts list stood for, my first look did not show the listings that you Posted, for either the C7OZ or the C8OZ Kits. As I kept looking, I found that for some reason, there are two sets of "Kit Parts" listings ; one set on pages 2 through 7  (C5DZ - D5DZ) and pages 8 through 32 (C4DZ-D2ZZ), all in Section 36.1, all pages numbered consecutively, and all dated May 1975. However, in looking a little farther, at the beginning of the "PS Kits" in the Text section, there is a "Page Number Index", which notes that pages 2-7 are "PS Linkage" Kits, and the rest of the pages are the pumps, hoses, etc. I must have not looked at the Index initially, and was thus looking at the Linkage Kits, which is why I didn't come across any Straps or fasteners.

It was in the second section of listings where I found the pages you Posted. Interestingly, the Strap and Clip (retainer) shows up in the C7OZ and C8OZ listings, but not in the C7ZZ and C8ZZ listings.
Also of interest is the  symbol by the two fasteners shown in the C8OZ listing (C7AA-3E523-A and C8AA-3E523-A) notes "Optional". This symbol does not show up in the C7OZ listing, and in addition, the "Clip" (retainer/fastener) is shown as C7OA-3E523-A. Also, both the C7OZ and C8OZ listing show the quantity required for both the Straps and Clips as "2" (possibly upper and lower Straps ?).

So now we have Part Numbers for both C7 and C8 Straps and 3 different fasteners (Clips), none of which, for some reason, are listed in the C7ZZ or C8ZZ KIts, as well as not knowing the differences between each.
Just another case of "the more one knows, the less one knows".

Thanks again for "digging" these out.

Bob

[J_Speegle]

Scott : As noted in item 11 of my opening Post of this thread, I went through all of the TSB's from 06/03/66 through 09/27/68 (except for #85, 86, 87, 95 and 97 which I am missing), and found nothing on the Strap. As the ones that I am missing cover the period between 01/26/68 and 09/13/68, I would say that chances of anything in regard to the Strap appearing that late are slim.

Now that we have this somewhat narrowed down, I will go back and revisit my TSB's from August 1966 through February 1967, in case I possibly could have missed it.

If there was not a problem with the straps or hardware (or rarely/sometimes a roll out of a very different option or model) that related to servicing there would be no reason to publish a TSB

Don't recall seeing any strap, mentioned in the TSB - any 65-74 TSB and its not in my "cheat sheet"

[196667Bob]

If there was not a problem with the straps or hardware (or rarely/sometimes a roll out of a very different option or model) that related to servicing there would be no reason to publish a TSB

Don't recall seeing any strap, mentioned in the TSB - any 65-74 TSB and its not in my "cheat sheet"

Jeff : I would agree with your statement, but only if the part was there to start with. In this case, particularly with 1967, there appears to be a question if the Strap was used at the beginning of production. First, no Strap appears in the 1967 MPC (dated January 1967) ; nor in the 1967 Assembly Manuals. In addition, at least so far, the earliest Strap that is documented is November 30th. So, if after Production began, and it was realized that there was a problem that could be avoided bu having a Strap, couldn't this addition be handled in a TSB or Special Service Bulletin ?
Also, while the Straps do appear in the 1960-68 MPC, I find it perplexing as to why they don't appear in either the C7ZZ or C8ZZ Kits ?

Just my observations and comments.

Bob

[67gtasanjose]

I just checked my son in-law's 11-09-66 SJ coupe C code with PS. It has no straps or holes.

... In addition, at least so far, the earliest Strap that is documented is November 9th. So, if after Production began, and it was realized that there was a problem that could be avoided bu having a Strap, ...

Correction: we have a November 9, 1966 as the latest San Jose example WITHOUT a strap. Earliest to date S.J. example WITH a strap is November 30th (1966).

[196667Bob]

Richard : Thanks for clarifying that.

I corrected my Post.

Bob

[67gtasanjose]

Please clarify the underlined portion of your comment. We have three SMALL BLOCKS mention thus far in this thread. My 11/02, Marty's 11/04 and Marty mentioned another from 11/09/66 build dates (all 3 are San Jose builds).

(on edit, corrected date of third example, typo error, incorrect date of build mentioned)

Point of interest. I HAD A TYPO on the last example, supposed to be 11/09/1966 (not 12/09/1966)

I have corrected that typo in my reply.

[67gtasanjose]

Sorry Richard I must have lost track of those examples in all the responses, different years and plants mentioned in the thread so far. Getting (for me) difficult to follow all the non-connected reference points and guessing it will likely get worst as more is added.    Just me I guess

Having 3 examples within a 7-day period thus far, all being small blocks, all from San Jose,...to me suggest a trend that perhaps a Survey could help identify yet another running change or at very least, a practice for a short period of time.

What do other members think? Another thread on this detail?

[Deuce]

Jeff : I know that you alluded to a split earlier, but I just haven't had to respond in the detail that I wanted to yet. My short answer "vote"(for now), is yes, but by year (1967 and 1968 threads), not by Plant. My reasoning will follow as soon as time permits.

Bob

Jeff : I know that you alluded to a split earlier, but I just haven't had to respond in the detail that I wanted to yet. My short answer "vote"(for now), is yes, but by year (1967 and 1968 threads), not by Plant. My reasoning will follow as soon as time permits.

Bob

One thing we seemed to have homed in on is:  67 SJ small block PS strap and when - between 11/09/1966 (without strap) and 11/30/1966 (with strap) - the straps were introduced into assembly; with San Jose plant used as the example for these dates.  I'd vote for 1967 All Plants to compare dates and inputs from members.  There is also the issue of what type fastener/pushpin is used.

And, I'd vote for 1968 All Plants in a separate thread.

[67gtasanjose]

I finally took a few minutes and read through this new "split thread" and I think it tracks straight for the most important  aspects known to date.

Thank you Jeff for your efforts. I do think more C and A-code examples in the September through November 66 time frame (all assembly plants) can narrow the likelihood of another running change or to determine in this "Strap/No Strap" is another "San Jose Thing".
I seem to recall of another member in Germany who has a 11/30/66  "Estimated Build Dated"  C-code convertible that COULD possibly chime in on this detail. If memory serves, it should be a San Jose example.

2nd item to hopefully nail down is the transition to the steel or metal barb type retainer. So far, it would appear that no 67 examples have been found with that type though pretty much every example outside of San Jose have been found with the SEM bolt. I have not charted the results shared thus far but that may be the next step to sort out any transition of the retainers better (if any).

My understanding at this time is:
a.) Before 11/09/66 on SAN JOSE examples, No Strap Used.
b.) Plastic Push-In Retainer used ONLY on 1967 year model San Jose examples
c.) SEM bolt used on Dearborn and N.J. built examples, no evidence when the use of the strap began (yet) so it is (for now) assumed the strap is used during the whole production year till more evidence suggests otherwise.

Perhaps more shall be revealed...