Topic: Small block power steering hose strap to shock tower - 67 All Plants

[J_Speegle]

The thread and another was split on Nov 9, 2019 from another so that we could focus closer on specific years but all plants. The splitting can cause some broken discussions but I hope I choose correctly when splitting to minimize that possibility. I'm adding the initial post from that starts the other thread since that was the basis of the discussion 

Since my last Post on this subject, I have done considerable research on the Strap and its fastener.

This has included the following :

1)  1967 Chassis Assembly Manual

2)  1967 Engine Assembly Manual

3)  1967 Preliminary Shop Manual

4)  1967 Shop Manual

5)  1967 MPC

6)  1960-68 MPC (Text and Illustrations)

7)  1965-72 MPC (Text and Illustrations)

  VOL 67 S10 L2 Steering and Suspension Principles - Training Handbook

9)  All 1967 Shop Tips

10)  Any Special Service letters in my possession (missing quite a few)

11)   TSB's from No. 40 (06/03/1966) through No. 99 (09/27/1968), except for No.'s 85,
        86, 87, 95 and 97 which I am missing.

Unless I have just plain missed it, none of the above have any pictures, illustrations, text, or any such "animal" in regard to the Strap and its fastener.

My next "exercise" was to go through approximately 85 pictures of 67's, most of which had several or more, detailed pictures of Engine Compartments. These included junkers, low and higher mileage original un-restored cars, fully restored cars, and partially restored cars, and a mix from all 3 Plants.

While Kevin Marti's book "Mustang by the Numbers" shows that approximately 44% of 1967 Mustangs were ordered with the Power Steering Option, my sample of 85 does not reflect that.

As best as I could tell by the pictures, I can only say for sure, that 17 had Power Steering. Of these 17, I found the following :

   1) Only 2 had the complete Strap intact with its retainer.
   
   2) 1 had the complete Strap and retainer present, but the Strap was broken in half.

   3) 3 had remnants of the Strap held in place with the retainer.

   4) 6 had the retainers only.

   5) 2 had holes for the retainers only showing.

   6) 2 with Power Steering exhibited no evidence of holes in the
                Shock Tower. To me, this "says" that either the Shock Tower sheet metal was
                replaced, or the Power Steering was added by a Dealer or an Owner after the
               car left the Factory.

   7) All of the 12 retainers that were in place were of the "push in"
                pin type ; none were of the "screw-in" with serrated washer type as John
                pictured from a SJ donor car in his initial Post here, or as found on my 67
                (Dearborn).
                Interestingly, both the one John pictured (from SJ Plant), and mine (Factory PS from Dearborn), were identical in size, length, and the serrated washer.
                The only difference was the manufacturer's marking on the recessed hex head self- tapping screw(1/4"- 14 x 1").
      
             
   My next thought was to look at pictures of 68's that I had. I only have 23 pictures of 68's, again in various conditions. Interestingly, of the 23 pictures of 68's that I have, 16 had Power Steering (this is way over the almost 52% that Kevin Marti's book shows were ordered with Power Steering).
While I didn't do as detailed an "inventory" on the 68's as the 67's, I did find that 2 had the Straps and retainers completely intact, none had remnants of the strap, none had the retainer only, some had only the holes for the retainers present, and some showed no holes present in the shock tower sheet metal.

My review of the 68's then got me wondering ; was the Strap just something that was carried over from 1967 initially, and then was decided to eliminate in early 1968 ? Not having anything specifically for 68's, other than the MPC's, I didn't really have anything specific that I could check. Therefore, I ask that if any 1968 Owners reading this have the 1968 Shop Manual, 1968 Chassis Assembly Manual , 1968 Engine Assembly Manual  or other 1968 specific resource, please check them for any information on the Strap, and Post your findings in this Thread.

PARTS

As noted above, nowhere in my research did I find a Part Number for the rubber Strap. Based on the pictures and dimensions furnished by John and Jeff, I had a limited number machine cut and machine punched. While the originals appear to be actual tire cord strips, this is beyond reasonable to have made as such. What I did do was to have 3/16", double cord reinforced rubber used, in a similar durometer A (70-75) as tire cord. I will be listing my extras in the Parts for Sale section of the Marketplace in the near future.

In regard to the retainers for the Strap, I have also not been able to find anything specific on them, especially why both "push-in" types and "screw-in" types were used.  Since John's donor example was from SJ, and my car was from Dearborn, the difference was probably not a "Plant thing" ; possibly an "early/ late" item, or just another one of the many 1967 running changes.

Based on the description and pictures provided by Marty,  the "push-in" fastener appears to be Hardware Part Number 382040-S2. Interestingly, this fastener is shown in the 1960-68 MPC as being used on Full Size 1967 Fords, to hold the Defroster nozzle to the Heater Plenum. These fasteners can be a real "bear" to remove ; I have dealt with similar ones on earlier Fords. Unless you can reach both sides of the fastener with your two hands, you need a second set of hands ; one to squeeze the two "arrows" together, and the other to pry the "button end" out. Needing a second set of hands would be the case in regard to the PS Strap fastener. Possibly (?) this might have prompted the change to the "screw-in" type.
The good news, is that AMK shows these as being available ; just type in the Part Number in their "Search" box.

As for the "screw-in" type, all indications are that this is a SEMS fastener. I came to this conclusion based on several things ; first, I could find no separate serrated, conical washer of the correct ID and OD ; next, mine definitely has a "captive" washer (you cannot slip it off over the screw) ; AMK's Guide to Fasteners shows this part (376246-S) available in two different finishes ; finally, jwc's Mustang Hardware List shows this fastener as having two different applications in 1967, and one in 1968 (however, neither is for the PS Strap).
Once again, good news ; AMK shows this fastener as being available in both Phosphate and oil, and in Zinc Dichromate finishes. My fastener, as well as John's screw, appear to be the phosphate and oil.

Again, if anyone has any documentation on this PS Strap and its fasteners, please share here.

Bob

[J_Speegle]

First, as a reminder, the strap being discussed here is the one attached to the drivers side shock tower forward face and not the other one sometimes found on the inside face of the same shock tower nearer the bottom as shown in the other thread mentioned above.

Now that we're looking and comparing all plants and both years I went through 67s for an initial look and found the following

- Didn't look for just the presence of holes for the straps - would be allot of cars in numbers. Guess a second count could be done if there was a value or the theory that certain periods did not receive the straps. Unfortunately the location of the holes is in the area where allot of owners modified their cars so they could grease/lube the upper A arm and in turn removing evidence, if it was present, of the hole.  Must be reported also that cars that did not come with PS sometimes also had the holes producing a false positive finding from those cars.

- Appears (so far) that the upper strap was only installed on C and A code equipped cars ordered with PS.

- All the examples I found for Dearborn from 67 (about 20 so far) used the screw and washer style of attachment. Found two different styles/sizes of retainers (multiples of each found) For the record - upper left from 7F129xxx and lower right from 7F240xxx




- Examples from NJ (67) were hard to find (even though I had more examples of cars than Dearborn)

- San Jose 67 examples (over 40 examples) showed the plastic style retainers in all but one of the examples found. Its not know if the single non-plastic retainer is something that a past owner did or something install on the assembly line but its easy to see that it was not typical is it were original.




- In vast majority of the examples in this viewing had complete straps in place.

[196667Bob]

Jeff : Interesting observation that all of your Dearborn examples appear to have used the SEMS self-tapping fastener. Makes me wonder how that fastener type made its way to the SJ donor car Strap that John pictured in his original Post of the thread for the SJ Straps ??

One other thing that I have noticed and would like to clarify. You have noted several times "plastic" push-in button fasteners ; do you know for a fact that they are plastic, or are you just going by their appearance ? The reason I ask is that in the SJ specific thread, Marty had described and pictured all the fasteners that he had seen as metal. Based on his description and pictures, I found this fastener to be 382040-S2, which was also used on Full Size Fords to connect the Defroster nozzle to the Heater plenum.
The other reason I question the fastener being plastic is that it has been my experience that plastic button type push-in fasteners were not used until the early 70,s, and in addition, the Standard Parts and Utility Catalogs of 1968 and 1969 show no plastic fastener of this size and type. While I'm sure that Plants had access to new parts prior to them being cataloged and sent to Parts Departments, I would find that unusual.

Finally, do you have any explanation or theory as to why this Strap and fastener doesn't appear to be documented by Ford anywhere ?

Thanks for your input on this.

Bob

[J_Speegle]

Jeff : Interesting observation that all of your Dearborn examples appear to have used the SEMS self-tapping fastener. Makes me wonder how that fastener type made its way to the SJ donor car Strap that John pictured in his original Post of the thread for the SJ Straps ??

I think that the hardware was available in the plant and used on another line and was repurposed for a time ( we would want to compare VINs from the one John found and the one I found) when the typical one (different supplier as we have found common with other details) was not available for some reason. Focusing on 67 only at this time. Will remember the one 68 SJ example krelboyne noted with the 30H projected build date once I get to that year.

One other thing that I have noticed and would like to clarify. You have noted several times "plastic" push-in button fasteners ; do you know for a fact that they are plastic, or are you just going by their appearance ? The reason I ask is that in the SJ specific thread, Marty had described and pictured all the fasteners that he had seen as metal.

Yes have removed, broken them taking them out, held them in my hand and in some cases they (when exposed to sun over a long period have taken on a white coloration. Do have pictures of one of those I can post later

Not sure if Marty (since it was a mixed thread of both 67 and 68's) was sharing 68 details or 67. I limited the earlier post to just 67 so as to not cloud the issue and findings. Yes have seen many of the metal button style but not on 67 San Jose. And hope to report that once I go through the 68 pictures. You might want to split (just a thought - its your thread) the discussion now before it goes further in one or both directions

Based on his description and pictures, I found this fastener to be 382040-S2, which was also used on Full Size Fords to connect the Defroster nozzle to the Heater plenum.
The other reason I question the fastener being plastic is that it has been my experience that plastic button type push-in fasteners were not used until the early 70,s, and in addition, the Standard Parts and Utility Catalogs of 1968 and 1969 show no plastic fastener of this size and type. While I'm sure that Plants had access to new parts prior to them being cataloged and sent to Parts Departments, I would find that unusual.

Not sure if the plastic style is even in the books. Should be but with all the different vendors and dozen or more plants these years missing one or two is/was always a possibility thought certainly not the plan. And was the Catalogs published quarterly and did they reflect what was going to be available or what was available? Always lots of unanswered questions

Finally, do you have any explanation or theory as to why this Strap and fastener doesn't appear to be documented by Ford anywhere ?

Nope. I can't explain many things when it comes down to why something was done one way or another. Hindsight often suggest something would have made sense but it does not always match with the choices made at the moment or time the cars were built

[Bossbill]

I checked the Shelby, with P/S, and it has a hole but doesn't appear to ever have a strap installed judging by pics of this car and others. Yeah, the P/S hose routing  on these is very different so not fair to compare to the other cars.
But what I found more interesting is that my parts car is also an early March car, but has no hole at all. It's a manual steering car.

It would be interesting to see if the build sheet marking of  "P/S" told someone along the line to drill the hole in the shock tower. And to not bother if it was a manual steer car.

[J_Speegle]

It would be interesting to see if the build sheet marking of  "P/S" told someone along the line to drill the hole in the shock tower. And to not bother if it was a manual steer car.

Though the buildsheet would include the notation of the car was to be fit with power steering the notation would be for workers to add parts needed not to drill holes and the like in most cases. Holes, welded or different welded brackets and panels would have been done during the first half of the assembly during a period where the build sheets we know well were not used. Appears that smaller pieces of paper or for a few plants, hand writing on a panel, section or body, the buck tag guided those workers to what each body needed to have done. Likely those were coded to indicate to the worker of the change to additional step needed


Some items attached with self tapping hardware could be handled later down the line after the initial assembly and painting of the body

[Bossbill]

Though the buildsheet would include the notation of the car was to be fit with power steering the notation would be for workers to add parts needed not to drill holes and the like in most cases. Holes, welded or different welded brackets and panels would have been done during the first half of the assembly during a period where the build sheets we know well were not used. Appears that smaller pieces of paper or for a few plants, hand writing on a panel, section or body, the buck tag guided those workers to what each body needed to have done. Likely those were coded to indicate to the worker of the change to additional step needed


Some items attached with self tapping hardware could be handled later down the line after the initial assembly and painting of the body

Got it. Didn't think that through.

If I strike the "build sheet" portion of my comment it still leaves me to wonder why
one car would have the hole and the other would not.
Wonder if the parts car is just odd (mistake) and that all cars should have the hole.

[J_Speegle]

Wonder if the parts car is just odd (mistake) and that all cars should have the hole.

Have found plenty of examples of A and C codes without the holes  So no (not even counting S, Q, K and T) didn't all received the holes IMHO

[67gtasanjose]

How many factory installed PS systems had no signs of this strap nor the related hole(s)?

I just went scraping off sealant and epoxy primer in both known locations and find what looks like stamped steel only, no signs of grinding, sanding or welding.

Marti Report confirmed Power Steering.

[67gta289]

Bob,

Attached are some pictures that might help.  It sure looks to me like bolts on Dearborn, plastic push pins on San Jose, and a crap shoot at Metucheon.

By the way, I'm sorry if I mislead you but the sample bolt and strap close ups from a Donor were off a Dearborn car, not San Jose.  I'll look at my postings and edit them if that is not clear.

John

[196667Bob]

First, I hope that Marty is following this thread and can enlighten us as to which year and Plant the two metal fasteners (382040-S2) came from. I have attached a copy of the picture that Marty originally Posted on October 10, 2016).

Secondly, John, thanks for Posting all of your examples of the Strap and fasteners from all three Plants. Very interesting.

By clarifying (I see you have already corrected the VIN) that the SEMS fastener (376276-S2) you pictured was from a Dearborn car, now makes your statement that the SEMS fasteners appear to have been used on Dearborn cars )at least in '67) have more credence.

In regard to your statement that San Jose used the plastic "push-pins", based on the picture of the two metal fasteners that Marty originally Posted, it appears to me that the fasteners shown on SJ VINs 7R01C168xxx, 173xxx, 194xxx are the metal ones ; the heads are shiny black, slightly domed and with rounded edges. The plastic pins appear to have a dull finish on their heads, flat heads and straight edges. Thus, it appears to me that both the plastic and metal "push-in" fasteners were used at San Jose. The question then is, was the use of both just random, or did one precede the other ? At first look, one might think that the metal ones were used initially, and then the plastic ; however, dkknab's POst and picture of the metal fastener used on his '68, although at Metuchen, might refute this idea. It appears that the real question is what was used when, at San Jose ? This may only be answered after relating type of fastener with the build dates.

Just my thoughts.

Bob

[67gtasanjose]

How many factory installed PS systems had no signs of this strap nor the related hole(s)?

I just went scraping off sealant and epoxy primer in both known locations and find what looks like stamped steel only, no signs of grinding, sanding or welding.

Marti Report confirmed Power Steering.

FYI my 67 GTA convertible 11-04-66 SJ car has no straps or holes.
 

Two days apart, same situation...we have a trend.
Naturally, this was established AFTER I ordered a new strap from Bob.
Not the first time I jumped the gun on a detail that hadn't yet been fully investigated.

I think we (maybe it's just 'me') have a tendency to "assume" too much that the majority of these cars were essentially all built the same during similar time-periods when in reality, many times details such as these, differ from other cars built at a similar time and location.

This isn't my first time making such an assumption on this project. I did this same thing before and outfitted myself to have all of the parts & pieces to ADD a battery tray mounted vacuum reservoir when after further investigation, it became obvious that the particular detail was actually a running change (relating to the Tilt-away steering column option when combined with Select-Aire).

Maybe a few more examples BEFORE or near early November 66 in San Jose, may establish yet another running change, or at least a gap in the use of this strap on small blocks in the San Jose plant.

[67gta289]

In regard to your statement that San Jose used the plastic "push-pins", based on the picture of the two metal fasteners that Marty originally Posted, it appears to me that the fasteners shown on SJ VINs 7R01C168xxx, 173xxx, 194xxx are the metal ones ; the heads are shiny black, slightly domed and with rounded edges. The plastic pins appear to have a dull finish on their heads, flat heads and straight edges. Thus, it appears to me that both the plastic and metal "push-in" fasteners were used at San Jose. The question then is, was the use of both just random, or did one precede the other ? At first look, one might think that the metal ones were used initially, and then the plastic ; however, dkknab's POst and picture of the metal fastener used on his '68, although at Metuchen, might refute this idea. It appears that the real question is what was used when, at San Jose ? This may only be answered after relating type of fastener with the build dates.

Bob, that is very reasonable assessment.  I'll amend my comment to that it appears that for 1967 San Jose used "push pins", and not specify the type.

[ruppstang]

I just checked my son in-law's 11-09-66 SJ coupe C code with PS. It has no straps or holes.

If I were to guess I would say some time in 67 the were enough problems with PS hoses touching exhaust Ford decided to add the straps. I guess we need to find the earliest date with the straps. 

[Deuce]

Robert (Duece) has an 11/30 San Jose also, believe his is a PS example as well. Maybe he'll get a bug in his ear and chime in also.

Richard, thanks for the prompt to chime in.  Been reading this thread with interest; always impresses me how much research is done by site members to nail down accurate facts for our cars. 

Below are two photos taken today taken from my SJ 11/30/66 '67 coupe.  VIN:  7R01C147xxx.

The strap probably hasn't been used as intended since the first PS hose change decades ago.  The strap has hardened, twisted and it is brittle, but it's still there along with the black pushpin.  A magnet does not stick to the pushpin, so I assume it's plastic (or nylon?). Hope this helps.

BTW though they look very similar the last two pictures are from different cars though in the picture the details (including the weaving or spinning of the strap by a prior owner - not factory) is identical