Topic: Re-issued (Reproduction) parts

[Bossbill]

After reading this thread
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=19355.0)
I inspected the p/s steering coolers at Mustangtek.
Turns out someone on Ebay is selling a re-issue of the C8OA-3D746-A 428CJ and B9 cooler for $300.

Are really nice originals worth more than the re-issues or did the reissue set the price of all coolers now?

I've often wondered what repops and re-issues do to original prices, so I thought this might be a good example.

[Bob Gaines]

After reading this thread
http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=19355.0)
I inspected the p/s steering coolers at Mustangtek.
Turns out someone on Ebay is selling a re-issue of the C8OA-3D746-A 428CJ and B9 cooler for $300.

Are really nice originals worth more than the re-issues or did the reissue set the price of all coolers now?

I've often wondered what repops and re-issues do to original prices, so I thought this might be a good example.

There have been other examples also. Re issue tires and exact looking exhaust systems come to mind . In those cases there are very small differences that can be used to tell the difference but they are very small differences.

[Bossbill]

What I wonder, though, is do originals command more money than exact re-issues if they are virtually identical?

Or do re-issues lower the price of the originals down to the price of the re-issues?

[PerkinsRestoration]

What I wonder, though, is do originals command more money than exact re-issues if they are virtually identical?

Yes, not aware of any 100% exact reproductions of major high profile items. Tires, Batteries,Sheet metal, interior parts, glass ETC. Later Nos service parts are not always 100% exact as assembly line either.

Or do re-issues lower the price of the originals down to the price of the re-issues?   

                                      Never!





 

[J_Speegle]

I've often wondered what repops and re-issues do to original prices, so I thought this might be a good example.

Very little, to nothing IMHO. Instead they fill the gap for some potential buyers between the often expensive 100% correct pats for the application  and what ever was the best part available before the new item was made or released.

There are some cases where the new reproductions are advertised or sold without disclosing all of the facts  rather than producing and releasing the part to the general public, selling a few at a time to help fill their pockets with more money

[specialed]

The new p/s coolers are good but the mounting brackets are laser cut where as like most original parts made back in the 60s are sheared off when cut out of  the metal .

[Coralsnake]

Oh, is that a mine field I see ahead? 

[Bossbill]

No, that was me pulling the pin on a hand grenade.

Not trying to scratch the paint on anyone's ride since I am a buyer more than a seller.
 

[RoyceP]

There are great reproduction parts. If the part cannot be detected as a reproduction, then it is a good one. When restoring one of these cars you often have little choice on what to use. My decision making process is something like this:

1. Can I restore the original part? If so I will.
2. If option 1 is not valid, can I find a good used one that can be restored?
3. If option 2 is not possible, can I find an NOS one to buy? Like Bob says, NOS parts often differ greatly from assembly line parts.
4. If all those other options fail, I consider the quality of the reproduction part and use the best option that I can find. Sometimes the reproduction part can be "restored" or modified to more closely resemble the original. Compare, for example, Scott Fuller exhaust systems to Kepich.
5. Other times, you have to go with what is available even if it is NQR in appearance.

Often times your budget will prevent you from making the best possible choice, even when a better choice is available.

[HDAshmore]

Royce,

I live in perpetual motion on 1-3.  Have not gotten to the point in progress or experience on either car to deal with numbers 4 and 5.  And your final comment is the dark cloud that hovers over all of them for me.  Having two cars, a family and one job makes that final comment the most relevant and worst of them all, at least from my fox hole.

Than I snap out of it and realize I have two Mustangs and therefore no reason to complain and I should just plod on and it is what it is.


Still good advice you have provided,

Thanks,
Dan in Kansas

[67gtasanjose]

I think the biggest problem I faced when I first began my restoration project...I was assuming that a good majority of the reproduction Parts would be adequate, that essentially no 'Quality Parts Vendor' would be selling junk parts.

No need to comment more on that topic.

After realizing that most reproduction parts are nothing in quality or fitment, I then jumped on the NOS train. I suppose also, no more comments need spoken on that subject. We all have horror stories there too.

If there is one benefit that I have received from being on this forum, it would be that I have moved back my completion date multiple years now. As a result of moving back this date of completion, it has afforded me two very invaluable commodities. I have been able to unearth much better Parts over time. As a matter of fact, there were many things that I had marked as completed and ready to install when I got the car painted, that have since been superseded with other items along the way, thus improving the potential for a better overall completed project. The other commodity is I continue to learn how many things had been altered on my example, giving me more opportunity to make those Corrections when the time comes to assemble the car.

I am not sure how the people who are in the restoration business do this for a living. Obviously, they have contacts and resources well beyond my means!

I wish to thank everyone who helps on this forum because I know without it, the help that comes from members here, there would be no way I would have ever achieved anything like what I desired to do to this car many years ago. Thank you everyone who has helped me along the way to this date.

 Also, any of the parts vendors out there who are willing to set the bar higher, please consider topics such as this as one, I know all of us in the hobby appreciate the efforts and Investments that you all put into helping us. Take the reproduction battery situation for the 65 to 67 Mustangs. I seriously doubt that any reproduction option ever developed would ever compare price wise to an original battery for one of those cars. Sure, it would be nice to have a battery that functions in the car but the reality will always remain that an original battery from the era would always have more value than any reproduction battery ever would. We already see this with the 68 reproduction batteries they currently sell.

[ruppstang]

Well said Richard and you are welcome. Generally we are all in the same boat and must help each other. The two greatest assets in this Concours game IMHO are patience and resourcefulness.

Marty 

[CharlesTurner]

There are great reproduction parts. If the part cannot be detected as a reproduction, then it is a good one. When restoring one of these cars you often have little choice on what to use. My decision making process is something like this:

1. Can I restore the original part? If so I will.
2. If option 1 is not valid, can I find a good used one that can be restored?
3. If option 2 is not possible, can I find an NOS one to buy? Like Bob says, NOS parts often differ greatly from assembly line parts.
4. If all those other options fail, I consider the quality of the reproduction part and use the best option that I can find. Sometimes the reproduction part can be "restored" or modified to more closely resemble the original. Compare, for example, Scott Fuller exhaust systems to Kepich.
5. Other times, you have to go with what is available even if it is NQR in appearance.

Often times your budget will prevent you from making the best possible choice, even when a better choice is available.

That sums up my approach also.  Although, throw into the mix the different assembly plants and that not just any used part may work, it can become challenging.  When I restored the 65 K convertible to Thoroughbred level, it took several years just to acquire enough parts to have on-hand to assemble the car.  There were multiple 'NOS' and service replacement parts.  A lot of times, even the NOS/service parts were not good enough when compared to original.  It ended up that a high degree of original parts were restored.

Going back to #1/#2 on the list above, restoring original parts is not easy.  There are not perfect rust-free parts on every car that can be easily restored.  It takes almost an archaeological mindset approaching restoration of parts.  Care has to be taken when removing them, they have to be carefully cleaned and inspected, then if they are plated or painted, figuring out the best materials or place to send to for plating.  It's very easy to stray away from the correct appearance and not be trying to.  It's no wonder that folks with minimal skills opt for cheap(er), lower quality parts out of a catalog that they can just bolt on their car.  But, unfortunately, there is no easy button for #1/#2, but it will almost always yield the best results.

[tobkob]

[quote  A lot of times, even the NOS/service parts were not good enough when compared to original.  It ended up that a high degree of original parts were restored.][/quote]

+1... I bought a lot of parts from Ford in the 1970's and when I restored my '69 GT350 I restored most of the original parts. I was lucky enough to have owned my '69 since '70 and parked it in '75 so it was completely rust free. I still have a shelf full of NOS Ford parts I didn't use. There were a lot of differences in assembly line and replacement parts from Ford even in the '70's. 

TOB

[70cj428]

Are really nice originals worth more than the re-issues or did the reissue set the price of all coolers now?

I've often wondered what repops and re-issues do to original prices, so I thought this might be a good example

IN MY OPINION......

When a part like this comes out that's virtually identical to the original, it can really limit the price of good used original parts. These coolers tend to get beat up when people are servicing the cars or changing belts, and with age they get corrosion between the fins and the paint tends to peel. So now your limited to a buying and restoring an original or buying a near perfect reproduction for 300.00 that will serve 99% of the restored cars perfectly well. I'll bet the repro coolers wouldn't be picked up by most judges, especially after a repaint, as there's just too much to evaluate on most cars in a limited time. Because the part is so good and the market is so limited it kinda put the cap on the used parts price wise at something less that 300.00. Now if you found an NOS original, or a super clean takeoff part then that would probably command a premium.

I've seen the same thing happen to the CJ fans and fan clutches. The CJ fan is a fairly common but sought after part (they made ALOT of 428CJ cars with that fan), the fan clutch was a lot harder to come across as it was a part that wore out. Since the repro fans came out, They probably filled the demand for 80% of the market, even though they were easy to identify vs an original. That knocked the demand for original fans way down. The fan clutches were always hard to find, but because it's costly and time consuming to get one rebuilt and a fan clutch failure can be devastating, a vast majority of people opt for the near perfect repro. At the fall Columbus show I bought a nice original CJ Fan with a nice original clutch for $400.00 on Saturday afternoon, 10 years ago that would have disappeared Friday morning and been back on another dealers table for 650.00-700.00 .  The same thing happened to the prices on original Shelby C8ZX fan clutches because the repros are so nice...

I think it's all a case of supply and demand, and with the current slump in Muscle car prices the market for the mega dollar dated NOS parts seems to be shrinking drastically.

JMHO as always, John