Topic: Radiator support markings, Dearborn, July 13

[must69]

Trying to replicate chassis crayon markings on my 64-1/2 Coupe. Looks like A51 and then your best guess.  It's not the vin. Has anyone seen a pattern to these?

[Coralsnake]

I am pretty sure the Dearborn cars do follow a pattern

Rotation number, exterior color and interior code.

Maybe someone has a better photograph of some more examples

[NEFaurora]

First off, It would be Three or Four Digits....not two...

Looks like SKID# or Rotation# A515  to me...

This subject has been touched on a few times before....and I have been studying this for many years as well...

I found this in my archive files....probably from 2008 I think... although Jeff's name is on the bottom, I don't think he was the "sole" contributor to this... and I'm more than sure that I may have done some mods to it myself as newer info was found over the years...


1965-1966 Mustang Dearborn Original Radiator Support Markings

Generally when early 64-66 Dearborn cars (not all cars appear to have been marked)..The marks were applied during the body and trim part of the assembly and they include the following is some order though application varied depending on shift/worker.

The typical Dearborn format was usually as follows, but DID deviate on some cars due to different workers on the Dearborn Assembly Line.

 1. - Rotation (ROT) or SKID number Letters A thru F followed by a 3 or 4 digit number) (Usually located on the top Passenger side edge of the radiator support, but sometimes written on the Bottom Passenger side Edge as well sometimes.)

 2. - Body type of car (65A, 65B, 65C, 63A) ...Sometimes abbreviated by workers as...(5A, 5B, 5C or 3A).

 3. - Exterior color code (so the painter knew what color to paint the car)

 4. - Interior code (so painter knew what color to paint interior)

 5. - Sometimes included codes to indicate AC (AC) or remote mirror (RM) or Backup Lights (BL) since no buck tags were used to indicate these to the workers and possibly it was quicker than looking at the buildsheet.

When all was done the engine compartment paint covered these codes/markings and the car rolled onto the next station .

Jeff Speegle


See attached pics for "Typical" Dearborn '65-'66 examples..

)

Tony K.

[NEFaurora]

Here's a few more... As with the last 5 posted above, These are also from "Original cars"...

[NEFaurora]

Here's one from Bob Fria's VIN#002 Car (First 64 1/2 Hardtop Made at the Allen Park Pilot Plant). The Radiator markings look similar to later Production '64 1/2 to '66 Dearborn cars, but they are "hardly" typical when compared to actual Dearborn Production cars.. As with most things... The radiator markings "Evolved" over time to a more standard format as all the ones pictured above...

)

Tony K.

[CharlesTurner]

Keep in mind the markings were done on bare steel and then painted over when the engine bay black was applied.

[Bob Gaines]

Keep in mind the markings were done on bare steel and then painted over when the engine bay black was applied.

+1. I don't know how many times I have seen where by mistake restorers mark them on top of the black so that you can see them.

[NEFaurora]

"+1. I don't know how many times I have seen where by mistake restorers mark them on top of the black so that you can see them."

True.  But I have seen instances on Original unrestored cars where even though painted over by the factory, The Original markings are still plainly visible...not all all '65-'66 Dearborn cars obviously, but I guess it had to do with what type of Crayon or Marker was being used that day.  Some markings can be plainly seen right through the original Black paint.

But you're right, Putting markings on the outside of the paint is not how it was done...and is a "No-No."  It would be more ideal if restorers made heavy crayon markings on the bare steel (or even primer for that matter) and just lightly "dusted" the black paint over the panel...as it would "appear" more correct as Original...

)

Tony K.

[Bob Gaines]

"+1. I don't know how many times I have seen where by mistake restorers mark them on top of the black so that you can see them."

True.  But I have seen instances on Original unrestored cars where even though painted over by the factory, The Original markings are still plainly visible...not all all '65-'66 Dearborn cars obviously, but I guess it had to do with what type of Crayon or Marker was being used that day.  Some markings can be plainly seen right through the original Black paint.

But you're right, Putting markings on the outside of the paint is not how it was done...and is a "No-No."  It would be more ideal if restorers made heavy crayon markings on the bare steel (or even primer for that matter) and just lightly "dusted" the black paint over the panel...as it would "appear" more correct as Original...

)

Tony K.

I agree that there are instances where the markings can be seen through some thinly applied black engine compartment paint but that is more the exception then the rule.

[J_Speegle]

Trying to replicate chassis crayon markings on my 64-1/2 Coupe. Looks like A51 and then your best guess.  It's not the vin. Has anyone seen a pattern to these?

Yes as mentioned the first rotation number assigned at Dearborn during the first year of production.  Plenty of examples shown in earlier threads. Remember that these would not be visible (typically except for at an angle with the sun light at the right angle) on the finished car. Also consider that the markings were likely originally thinner and that the wax based marker spread out through contact with the bare metal under the paint topcoat over many years leaving you with what you can see today

My attempt at reproducing the practice is covered and my efforts in pictures are in the thread listed below

http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=6536.msg38840#msg38840

True.  But I have seen instances on Original unrestored cars where even though painted over by the factory, The Original markings are still plainly visible...not all all '65-'66 Dearborn cars obviously, but I guess it had to do with what type of Crayon or Marker was being used that day.  Some markings can be plainly seen right through the original Black paint.

Consider that your looking at 50 year old cars and that likely they were not as or at all visible with a fresh coat of paint over them as they had day #1.  Years of reaction between wax, rust and paint as well as often seen leaching likely played a big part in what you saw.

[must69]

Thanks to all for an education!  What I have is the “same” as shown in the pictures.  Yes, I get it thatbthis was under the paint, explains why it looks like it does.  Have found other markings on the chassis, that are definitely on top of chassis paint, and those I can read easily to duplicate.  This whole restoration process reminds me doing family ancestry!
Thanks again for the help.
Phil

[Hawkeye]

I found this when my '64.5 was getting rebuilt.  The ones on the side are a little hard to see, but it looks like this was used as a press car.

[J_Speegle]

I found this when my '64.5 was getting rebuilt.  The ones on the side are a little hard to see, but it looks like this was used as a press car.

Dearborn?  Around when was it built if you don't mind?

Also if you know it what is the DSO. The CA might indicate California for emission purposes

[rodster]

I found this when my '64.5 was getting rebuilt.  The ones on the side are a little hard to see, but it looks like this was used as a press car.

That's interesting!

[Hawkeye]

Dearborn?  Around when was it built if you don't mind?

Also if you know it what is the DSO. The CA might indicate California for emission purposes

Yup, Dearborn built.  Don't have the door tag (was removed before I bought it, probably during one of the 3 or 4 paint jobs), but it's #3219, and best guess on build date is March 23.  (that's from finding VINs on either side built on the 23rd over at the Early Mustang Registry) No idea on the DSO, I bought it in FL in '86 from the 2nd owner.  I couldn't figure out the CA, but I mentioned it to Gary Patterson in Indy before the banquet, and he said it would be a Cali press car.  But as I've looked at it again, and again, and again, it looks like it could be an R after the CA, so "PRESS CAR" is my guess on that.
I need to try to enhance the left side markings to see if I can see what the original color code was.  I found some unmolested areas on the car when it was being repainted a couple years ago and saw what looks like turquoise in places.