Topic: 66 SJ Unibody Undercarriage sealers and paint Article Questions

[evantugby]

Jeff,
I'm referencing your article in the library titled "Restoration Support 66 San Jose Unibody (undercarriage).  I have several questions as I prepare my self for the details I'll need to pass along to my paint/body guy.

Q1:  To reproduce the body dolly marks, can I rent a set of your attachments (8 total) from you?

Q2:   Seam Sealer applied to seams:  Can you direct me to the light tan/off white self leveling sealer used on trunk lip, drip rail, A pillars, cowl pinch weld, door jamb areas?

Q3:  When you mention on page 2 "seams sprayed and sound deadener applied in the interior area of the car", are you referring to the product "Spectrum Sludge" referenced in your other article on page 2 of Concours How to's: Reproducing or Repairing of Factory Sound Deadener and Spray-on Sealer?  Essentially what I'm asking is is "Spectrum Sludge" the today standard for sound deadener and seam sealer?   

Q4:  Page 2, Section 2-Exterior body primed with red oxide:  What is the difference (other than slight color change) between red epoxy primer sealer sprayed on the undercarriage vs red oxide primer?  Your work makes a distinction here where you later mention "visible differences that can be seen on original paint cars".

Q5:  What are fastback simulated scoop fingers?  Referenced on page 3, section 4.

Q6:  Does this document, specifically dealing with processes at San Jose plant, differ enough from the Metuchen and Dearborn plants that it couldn't be all encompassing?

Q7:  Page 15 shows pictures of a sprayed adhesive on the firewall.  What product/application currently on the market today would replicate this? 

Q8:  Page 17, top left picture shows an inner door masked off with white/light gray and blue paint.  Is the white/light gray area of this door the same paint that was the "light gray surface primer" referenced earlier in the document when detailing the exterior body that was primed? 

Thank you sir,
Evan

[J_Speegle]

Jeff,
I'm referencing your article in the library titled "Restoration Support 66 San Jose Unibody (undercarriage).  I have several questions as I prepare my self for the details I'll need to pass along to my paint/body guy.

Q1:  To reproduce the body dolly marks, can I rent a set of your attachments (8 total) from you?

Don't know where they are hidden away at the moment. Let me see if I can find them before discussing that first
Likely would cost the same to make up a set as pay even postage for the ones I made. Plans are in the Library

Q2:   Seam Sealer applied to seams:  Can you direct me to the light tan/off white self leveling sealer used on trunk lip, drip rail, A pillars, cowl pinch weld, door jamb areas?

Everyone is going to have their favorite for drip rails and such I've used 3M Firm and Fast in the past. Firewall to cowl pinch weld could be done with any of the chalking gun products also since there is additional thickness and pooling there and have seen many crack with age and big changes in temp

Q3:  When you mention on page 2 "seams sprayed and sound deadener applied in the interior area of the car", are you referring to the product "Spectrum Sludge" referenced in your other article on page 2 of Concours How to's: Reproducing or Repairing of Factory Sound Deadener and Spray-on Sealer?  Essentially what I'm asking is is "Spectrum Sludge" the today standard for sound deadener and seam sealer?   

Everyone has their favorite. The Sludge has worked for many while other prefer the Lord Fusor and other products

Q4:  Page 2, Section 2-Exterior body primed with red oxide:  What is the difference (other than slight color change) between red epoxy primer sealer sprayed on the undercarriage vs red oxide primer?  Your work makes a distinction here where you later mention "visible differences that can be seen on original paint cars".

Believe the exterior that would later be coated with paint was more of a primer than a primer sealer and it was normally a different shade or tint as well as it was a flatter (non-glossy) finish. For a 66 San Jose car it would typically be lighter in tone than some undercarriage red oxides and not a muddy brown like any original examples.  More the Rustoleum look if I had to pick something that you might be familiar with

Q5:  What are fastback simulated scoop fingers?  Referenced on page 3, section 4.

See page #17 bottom right hand of the page

Q6:  Does this document, specifically dealing with processes at San Jose plant, differ enough from the Metuchen and Dearborn plants that it couldn't be all encompassing?

Believe it would add to the confusion to mix all three plants.  So that is the reason I choose to focus on one year and plant at a time since at each we can have three undercarriage colors from the firewall rearward, two from the firewall forward and two different typical sealant patterns at a since plant for a single year.  Times that by all three plants you may be up to five different undercarriage colors, ........ you get the idea.  Plus as this would mean an increased file size which slows up down load time and makes it more difficult to update and correct (some of these are in their 9th or greater version)

Just trying to keep it as simple as I can, specific as I can  and neat as I can

Q7:  Page 15 shows pictures of a sprayed adhesive on the firewall.  What product/application currently on the market today would replicate this?

 


There is nothing I've found yet that reproduces the original look for that year and plant. Once I get a new shop up and start playing I've been talking about trying spray headliner/vinyl top adhesive with dry graphite added.  But we'll have to wait and see

Q8:  Page 17, top left picture shows an inner door masked off with white/light gray and blue paint.  Is the white/light gray area of this door the same paint that was the "light gray surface primer" referenced earlier in the document when detailing the exterior body that was primed? 

[evantugby]

Hi Jeff,
Thanks for your time with these questions:  A couple follow ups. 

Did you forget to answer Q8?

Your answer to Q6 mentions each of the Ford plants "may have had different undercarriage colors".  Are you saying the plants didn't all use a red oxide primer?  I have a Metuchen 66 kar and it had red oxide primer still on it.  If there were other colors, what have you seen? 

[carlite65]

ever hear of 'batch paint"? do a search here please.

[evantugby]

ever hear of 'batch paint"? do a search here please.

No, I haven't.  A search yields no definition of batch paint--only talking about it as if everyone understands what it is. 

Perhaps you can clue me in?

[Coralsnake]

Batch paint is a mixture of primer and what ever else was left over at the end of the day or shift. It was mixed together and could a be a variety of colors.

Not all plants used batch color, so knowing the specific time and plant is important if you want to replicate what the factory did.

Your car should be the first reference.

You can use something as simple as a large washer to recreate the prepaint spots.

[J_Speegle]

Sorry been on a family trip for almost a week

Did you forget to answer Q8?

Q8:  Page 17, top left picture shows an inner door masked off with white/light gray and blue paint.  Is the white/light gray area of this door the same paint that was the "light gray surface primer" referenced earlier in the document when detailing the exterior body that was primed?

Yes I guess I did

Top left picture on page 17 (version 9) shows a black interior red exterior passenger door. Since I've posted that version I don't think that is the one your referring to

Version 8 had a blue interior, white exterior door. If that is the one the outer door skin lip where the out side belt line attaches is painted white like the exterior

Your answer to Q6 mentions each of the Ford plants "may have had different undercarriage colors".  Are you saying the plants didn't all use a red oxide primer?  I have a Metuchen 66 kar and it had red oxide primer still on it.  If there were other colors, what have you seen?

Guess others have responded in general terms. Sorry there was not a definition posted in the FAQ's guess we figured is was a term generally well know but guess not. Including all the different plants, production periods  all together would only confuse the subject and take the focus off what the poster is focusing on- typically their car.

There are typical and sub patterns during many years and plants and even very small deviations that may have lasted only days to maybe a week. Posting them, experience has shown, only seems to  invite owners or builders to apply the odd one. Guess it is their attempt to stand out or be different all while claiming who will ever know. So I normally choose not to feed that whim with specifics

[JBSpeednut]

Jeff Speegle-
First, thanks for sharing your wealth of information with/for the Mustang (and classic car restoration) hobby. I've recently purchased a fairly original June '66 San Jose Coupe and am doing an engine rebuild which led to an engine compartment restoration which led to an undercarriage restoration.  While engine, trans, exhaust, brake and fuel lines are out...might as well right?  I'm sure you are well familiar with how these projects grow...sometimes out of control.  My car is consistent with your article findings.

Please reference your recent Restoration Support 66 San Jose Unibody article.  I'd appreciate a clarification on when the undercarriage primer process stopped as the unibody passed over the spray system.  At the bottom of page 2, you describe "The application stopping approximately four inches short of the rear cross member."  However, the undercarriage diagrams reflect complete coating of the undercarriage including what I believe is the rear cross-member you reference. Is the rear cross member you mention at the very rear between the rear gas filler valence and the fuel tank?  Presumably, this means the cross member and approximately the last 4 inches of the frame rails were not coated with red-brown coating and were left as bare metal. I'd appreciate this clarification to your great article.

Thanks Again,

[J_Speegle]

Please reference your recent Restoration Support 66 San Jose Unibody article.  I'd appreciate a clarification on when the undercarriage primer process stopped as the unibody passed over the spray system.  At the bottom of page 2, you describe "The application stopping approximately four inches short of the rear cross member."  However, the undercarriage diagrams reflect complete coating of the undercarriage including what I believe is the rear cross-member you reference.

Sorry that is a result of using the drawing program I used to draw and color those graphics but as expected and hoped readers would use both the descriptions and pictures of cars in conjunction with the drawings to get an understanding of the practices. Real hard to draw different surfaces also as they should represent both bare steel and galvanized steel but not sure if that would show up in the small thin sliver   

Is the rear cross member you mention at the very rear between the rear gas filler valence and the fuel tank?  Presumably, this means the cross member and approximately the last 4 inches of the frame rails were not coated with red-brown coating and were left as bare metal. I'd appreciate this clarification to your great article.

Found it challenging to figure out how to describe or illustrate a 3D area in the work. Apparently what I've printed so far has not gone far enough and I will need to revisit and reword.

If we're looking for the approximate 4 inches that would be measured from the rear of the rear cross member and  in turn describe the lack of thinning of the paints inside the pockets rather than viewed from directly below and including the bottom most surface of the rear cross member. If you can make out the surfaces onside the pockets shown below we have some that have retained some color and coating while another where it was thin or lacking and in turn developed surface rust

Green arrows point towards the inside of the "pockets"




This second example shows the lack of paint further forward than four inches on the inside pocket on the driver side in contrast to the one showed above



Difficult to tell the body color from the red oxide since the two are so close in their look once mixed

[JBSpeednut]

Thanks for quick reply post, description clarification and pictures.  I get the idea and will try to replicate that on my car which was previously restored many years ago by a previous owner without benefit of your factory painting details.  And the undercarriage diagram illustrations you developed for the 66 San Jose Unibody article are really well done.  I really appreciate the level of detail you included in the article.