Topic: Riveting Arm Ball Joints

[1970 Snake]

I know there are guys out there riveting the bolt joints to the control arms with a concours finish, but shipping from Canada to the USA and back is cumbersome and costly.
I have had a suspension manufacturer here in Calgary attempting to press the AMK rivets into sample metal pieces to replicate the original component assembly and we are NOT having any luck mushrooming the rivets without them tipping sideways almost every time. We are only trying the upper arm rivets with the flat head as there is less chance of the rivet tipping sideways but the rivets are still bending to the side right at the head. I do not want to attempt riveting the original components until we get this right. Can anyone help with how to press the rivets without them shifting sideways during the process. Is the waffle pattern needed to stop the rivet from tipping slightly during the process??

[jmlay]

Have not done it but lots of heat may help.

[Bossbill]

Have not done it but lots of heat may help.

That sure sounds like it would work. The process is called hot rivet:


I haven't inspected an original to see if the heat marks are present, but it sure looks like a process that would work, given the right mandrels.

[ruppstang]

A air hammer with a peen to fit the head is how we did it is still a bit tricky. You had better have a pretty good air hammer if you want it to work.

[Bob Gaines]

The air impact hammer gets it done compressing the Rivet when the press does not in the same way the air impact ratchet gun can get a nut off when a regular wrench will not using even high torque.

[tobkob]

I have a friend with a 50 ton press and waffle pattern die. We had a couple of rivets to start to go off center so we cut them off and started again. I had ordered 2 sets of rivets in case we messed up one so it worked out well. 

TOB

[Bob Gaines]

I have a friend with a 50 ton press and waffle pattern die. We had a couple of rivets to start to go off center so we cut them off and started again. I had ordered 2 sets of rivets in case we messed up one so it worked out well. 

TOB

Good example. You wouldn't think a air hammer (must be a good one) could achieve the same results as a 50 ton press .But surprisingly it can in this case.

[J_Speegle]

Is the waffle pattern needed to stop the rivet from tipping slightly during the process??

Not sure if that is the sole purpose but believe it does help "grab" the tip of the rivet and hold it as it is compressed. May also help with mushrooming the head and reducing the chances of cracks in the rivet developing

Good example. You wouldn't think a air hammer (must be a good one) could achieve the same results as a 50 ton press .But surprisingly it can in this case.

IMHO depends on the operator, experience and other things. Have a fair number of examples where the rivets are/were not mushroomed like originals and might even be dangerous to drive with. Often I've seen the ones where they used the air hammer where the top of the waffle pattern/mushroom is rounded or domed from the person doing it rocking the hammer and not holding it at the same angle through the process.

[Bob Gaines]

IMHO depends on the operator, experience and other things. Have a fair number of examples where the rivets are/were not mushroomed like originals and might even be dangerous to drive with. Often I've seen the ones where they used the air hammer where the top of the waffle pattern/mushroom is rounded or domed from the person doing it rocking the hammer and not holding it at the same angle through the process.

I said "Good example. You wouldn't think a air hammer (must be a good one) could achieve the same results as a 50 ton press .But surprisingly it can in this case." The point is It seems amazing that the air hammer can get the job done without taking 50 tons.

[1970 Snake]

Thanks for the help,  after some off-line discussions with others who have actually done the correct waffle pattern and mushroom button riveting with a press, it is pretty much agreed that your press needs to be very solid and that it will NOT allow any side movement of the ram or the rivets will tilt every time. Also a special set of dies needs to be build for the press, with the waffle pattern on one side. Then being very careful with your alignment of the parts and rivets you will get the correct mushroom and waffle pattern. Unfortunately the custom die set is quite expensive to fabricate/machine and a good press is also tough to find. The testing that my vendor here did only required about 8 - 10 tons of pressure to mushroom the AMK rivets.

[Armond]

Rare parts will rivet your arms for you, they are in Stockton Ca.  They did a number of sets for me years ago.  They have the waffle pattern.

alan@rareparts.com  Alan Jensen is their contact 800-621-2005 x 2103

[J_Speegle]

Rare parts will rivet your arms for you, they are in Stockton Ca.  They did a number of sets for me years ago.  They have the waffle pattern.

They did the last set for me, NOS boots, ball joints into my original A arms for my Boss

Got lucky since they had one of their waffle dies in the machine when I got there and they did them why I waited.  Sometimes there is a little delay since the press is used to make many different parts they reproduce.

All about the timeing and I got lucky

[Anghelrestorations]

You can send the control arms to Arizona and I can have them done and back to you before you figure out how to do it in Canada.  Been doing these for years and have all the tooling to do it correct and make it looks exactly like the originals.  There is alot more to doing these than just the riveting process as you need the correct rivets as well.   

[dkknab]

A air hammer with a peen to fit the head is how we did it is still a bit tricky. You had better have a pretty good air hammer if you want it to work.

Hey Marty, what sort of peen bit did you use here? Was it flat or concave?

[ruppstang]

It takes a peen that fits the rivet head and a very powerful air hammer. I only did it once, it worked but a lot can go wrong.